It’s more complex than that, and it’s unfair to say it was a badly thought choice. Or an easy one. Or that anything is clear cut to enforce.
I think we should all stop, think about it, and argue tomorrow on what the limits should be.
And if hoping bad things happen to bad people is wrong, I’m going to have words about it.
Let me put it this way. It’s absolutely worth discussing whether Ashli Babbitt’s shooting was justified. I suspect it was. But celebrating her death because she was a Trump supporter is a real dick move and I’d rather people didn’t do it here.
-Tom
I feel like this nutcase woman was shot because they saw her as a threat to the VP and Speaker. Am I glad she was shot? No, but I’m glad the VP and Speaker were protected. If the mob had been able to get at them there’s no telling what would have happened.
Nesrie
2023
So that two Americas thing…
Hard rules now that America No. 1 lost someone that might have been avoidable but the others were…
The timing of these rebukes could not be worse. Should’ve waited at least a week to let emotions calm down and then discuss the overall issues around talking about death.
jpinard
2024
We know what would have happened. One of the guys in there had zipties to take Congress people hostage.
jpinard
2025
The plan, as happened in Michigan, was to try them for treason and execute them.
Timex
2026
What if I celebrate hear death because she was committing sedition, and was stopped?
I mean, I think it’s easy for us to pretend that’s not what was happening… because we believe that our democracy is invulnerable. But it is not.
This mob of people was directly instigated by the sitting President of the US. He told them to go down and storm the Capitol building, and they did.
This act was timed such that it was intentionally and directly disrupting Congressional action that was taking place as part of the peaceful transfer of power.
That’s important, I think. These people broke into the US Capitol, with the express goal of stopping the government from confirming the duly elected President as such. They were directly trying to seize power through illegal means.
That is not simply a riot. That is sedition.
And I’m sorry… but I think that crime is severe enough to merit death. Because if you can do that, and just walk out afterwards… then someone’s gonna do that, and next time they ain’t just gonna leave.
Hell, we know they planted actual explosive devices on the capitol grounds now. These were terrorists.
As I said, I’m conflicted on this… because part of me doesn’t think we should celebrate the death of anyone. But part of me absolutely thinks that woman, and a bunch of the other folks with her, deserved to get shot.
Nesrie
2027
It was no different at DC. They had zip ties, were looking for the Congress to take hostage. Some of them literally called it a revolution. What happens during most revolutions? The losing side doesn’t normally go home and have a beer. These people have no fear of their life or violence or justice.
They’re lucky we have a rule of law and bad system but still a judicial system. Most people want to see them arrested and tried, not just a threat removed permanently.
magnet
2028
Personally I don’t think one should ever celebrate killing. Even when necessary, it’s always regrettable. As a last resort, it necessarily demonstrates our own previous failures.
For instance, in this case you are “celebrating” a police force that was so incompetent that it left itself no choice but to use lethal force.
To me there is a pretty big difference between saying, when you are engaged in insurrection and many of your co-conspirators are armed, and you threatened members of Congress, you should expect cops to start shooting. I have very little sympathy for the woman, or her family, and her veteran status doesn’t matter much to me. She did an extraordinarily stupid thing and there are consequences for actions like this.
I think it is also fine to point out that if he protestors weren’t primarily old white dudes the bloodshed would have been far worse.
I think what Tom is saying is that when you wish or advocate that more folks had been killed that’s going over the line. (Not saying you say that , I really don’t know) . We are better than that.
jpinard
2030
Yep that’s why I posted that pic. It’s from yesterday :)
Well, that’s certainly an odd verb to use. I’m glad sedition was stopped, and I have no issue with characterizing it as such. I’m not glad some woman in a mob died as a result. So while I would “celebrate” sedition being stopped, I wouldn’t “celebrate” a young woman’s death. I think that’s kind of a fundamental part of human empathy.
If you don’t have that element of empathy, that’s fine. Just please don’t air it on this forum.
-Tom
John Bolton has to put in his 2 cents.
Nesrie
2033
But there have been deaths, years of deaths, unarmed and everything and lots of talks about deserving or justification or even hey look at that bad dude.
The optics of being upset about it today? OMG. It’s like It’s pretty much saying yes there is two Americas, and we’re going to say we care now because the right one, No 1, is upset about it.
We have a whole topic talking about how things should have gone, in another topic, and there isn’t really a hey let’s mow them all done over there… it’s more like, the police didn’t do anything.
There’s no celebrating going on here. It’s being horrified. Our Capital was sieged and those people just went home, had a beer, BLM doesn’t do that… they’re often in jail or in hospitals, yes hospitals or even the morgue, at least one group got stopped at a barricaded door where a shot was fired and killed someone.
This is so bad, but the worst part is they, this group that tried to take down our government, they not even stopped. Their leader is off social media, but they’re not.
nKoan
2034
But is he for it or against it?
The irrational hatred of Nancy Pelosi still shocks me. I know people here who don’t like Trump, have voted twice against him, but the mention of Nancy Pelosi gets them so riled up.
Timex
2036
Later in my post I said as much:
But I also believe that actions need to have consequences.
The fact that so many people were able to storm the US Capitol, with no repercussions…is going to have repercussions for the rest of us.
Next time, and there will be a next time I guarantee, it’s going to be worse now.
I honestly can’t tell if you’re talking about me, but if you are, can you explain a bit more clearly if you’d like me to respond?
-Tom
jpinard
2038
Capitol protester in Pelosi’s office ‘not afraid’ to go down with ‘someone else’s blood
The man photographed sitting at a desk in Nancy Pelosi’s office during the Capitol Hill riots has been identified by the media as Richard Barnett of Arkansas – and he is now insisting he is “not a thief” despite allegedly swiping a letter addressed by the House speaker.
Barnett, as of midday Thursday, does not appear to be facing any charges related to the storming of the U.S. Capitol Wednesday, which resulted in four deaths and at least 70 arrests. Demonstrators are still being sought by police.
“If you are a wicked attorney get in touch with me – I’m going to need one or two,” he told KFSM in a phone interview following the chaos.
Richard Barnett, a supporter of U.S. President Donald Trump, sits inside the office of U.S. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi inside the U.S. Capitol in Washington, DC, on Jan. 6. (Photo by Saul Loeb/AFP via Getty Images) (Getty Images)
The 60-year-old from Gravette went viral Wednesday after images purportedly showed him sitting in a chair behind a desk in Pelosi’s office.
“As I’m looking for the bathroom I walked by and there were doors opened to offices. I looked in and saw it was Nancy Pelosi’s office,” he told KFSM.
“I sat down here in my desk. I’m a taxpayer. I’m a patriot. That ain’t her desk – we loaned her that desk,” he continued. “And she ain’t appreciating the desk, so I thought I would sit down and appreciate the desk.”
CraigM
2039
So question for you, as I don’t know the answer. If you have a post that is flagged or hidden, do you get notified?
I ask because I have been known to indulge the gallows humor, or more accurately national razor humor, from time to time. I also tend not to put full unfiltered thoughts either, and try not to do so out of anger but as a way of using humor for coping with insanity.
But I’m sure I’ve said things a time or two that go beyond what you’d allow now. Context is hard, especially lacking certain verbal and physical cues, so I do try to generally be precise and measured as much as possible. But every now and again I vent, because human.
So would I know if I said anything that crossed the line? I don’t think I have recently (though thinking it? oh no doubt), but would I know?
