Now you see China’s point of view.
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Sharpe
5004
We should have a strong legal response, even harsh, in some cases, but suggesting we “go full Tiennamen, or at least Kent State” is WAY out of line. I will say publicly that I flagged your post and I think you need a cooling off period Alstein.
But the worst part of that post is:
Yeah, like that kind of thinking has ever lead anywhere good. Alstein you need a time out.
Edit: Alstein has edited his post to make it more contingent so I’ll tone down my response to saying I think the rhetoric is still somewhat excessive and tone-deaf, but I do understand the sentiment.
Alstein
5005
It was a little excessive, in that it applies pre-emptive. I did change it for that reason.
I just truly believe as long as these folks think they can win things with force sooner or later, they’ll keep pushing the envelope. We can worry about healing once these folks show a willingness to accept facts and do things through the political process instead of terrorism.
I also believe we have an opportunity right now to fundamentally change America, to create a process where the sins of the past don’t keep repeating themselves. If we waste this chance, when will we get another?
And yeah, of course we can overreact, but I don’t think the options Biden would consider- even the nastiest wouldn’t be an overreaction- that’s what I meant.
I am just worried we’ll appease these folks too much. If we go for appeasement, this is just going to repeat itself over and over, and they only have to get lucky once, we have to get lucky every time.
I’m angry and scared right now. I’ve always thought there was a segment of America that would go to this once they felt totally defeated electorally, ever since the mid-2000s. Now my nightmare is coming true. I’ll also admit I got a defend the Consitution mentality from the time in uniform. What happened on 1/6 is on par with the Alien and Sedition acts and Civil War in my eyes.
More seriously:
Inside cops-only message boards and other pro-law enforcement media groups online, police officers are grappling with how a group that usually proclaims “Blue Lives Matter” could turn its wrath on them. Instead of facing the uncomfortable implications of the siege, many are pushing the debunked conspiracy theory that the chaos was orchestrated by anti-fascist activists who disguised themselves in a scheme to make the president and his base look bad.
The online ecosystem for law enforcement officers is shot through with right-wing politics and wild conspiracy theories. While not necessarily representative of mainstream beliefs among the nation’s police, there are already emerging signs that the toxic politics of online spaces like Thee Rant can spill over into real-life action.
In other news (click on the link to find out more about Mr. Eastman.)
I think all of us on QT3 are very upset. But when we start thinking about using violence in an pro-active instead of a reactive manner, and mirror the voices of the right, it’s easy for someone to come along and say “both sides” something something.
We need to remember that a lot of the angry right truly believe, even if it’s without any real scientific basis or evidence (one could argue like religion, it’s faith based), that the election was stolen. They have been on the receiving end of years or even decades of weaponised propaganda. They are effectively brainwashed, and the conspiracy theories once relegated to crazy persons are not only being endorsed by figures in authority, but are now being created by them, no less the President.
It’s easy to give up on the slow painful process of counseling and rehabilitation of 75 million voters. But to that end, more powerful than tanks right now is shutting off the flow of lies and disinformation, making law makers and pundits accountable for their conspiracy theories. The Dominion law suit and the various social media actions are effective and critical tools to achieve this goal.
That said, people who break the law must be held accountable to the greatest extent. Jail terms, no reprieves.
Alstein
5008
I agree, pro-active violence towards these folks is wrong, and I never implied that (and if folks felt I did, I’ll apologize for that). They have a constitutional right to nonviolent protest. However, they have lost the right to have the assumption that their protests are nonviolent. (and that’s a right never granted to leftist protest) If they get violent, we need to nip that in the bud immediately, and given these folks are largely well-off folks with lots of lose, they’ll back down. The police/security that enable the violence need to be fired at a minimum, Generally, folks are a lot less willing to die for a cause when it’s not a matter of life or death. These MAGA protesters are fundamentally bullies who are punching down, and the solution to that is how you deal with bullies in general.
They’re going to say both sides no matter what we do. They already are saying it. We need to stop caring what they say .
The only way they’re going to stop believing it is if they stop hearing it- which requires an aggressive deplatforming campaign. If folks do get out of the cult, we have to encourage it. I’d even be willing to commute sentences for folks who genuinely seem to repent while in prison (even if the track record of doing this in Europe for ex-AQ and ISIS folks is disappointing)
antlers
5009
In certain photos you can already tell that his body has started to form segments.
Alstein
5010
CNN article that gives me a bit of hope. These tools can work, it’s just going to be a lot tougher a slog.
This needs to be combined with a purge of law enforcement and the military though of the folks who support this.
Well put. I take your point that the both-siderism and hidden antifa stories were in play even before the blood dried. Still worth keeping the high ground, “they go low, we go high”. To be sure, nobody should get a free pass for one insurrection, and the guns, tear gas and bullets should be ready should the next attempt be even more violent and directed.
“Him? He was just the coffee insurrectionist.”
I kinda love this photo because the thing about soldiers is, if you give them an opportunity to sleep, they will damned well sleep; on, in, or through anything.
Hah. Yeah. The one thing of value the military gave me was the ability to sleep anywhere, anytime.
Alstein
5015
AOC is claiming she had an experience during 1/6 where she thought she would die. Said she can’t say too much due to investigations.
Ayanna Pressley is claiming her panic buttons in her office were ripped out just before the coup attempt.
I wish the military gave me that. I can sleep through noises just fine though due to being near the jetline. The best sleep I ever had was the one after basic though.
If they’re going to be relying primarily on the Guard- that reduces the odds of an over orunderreaction. Those folks are trained to a higher standard professionally and morally than cops.
I’ve been in the military and I can confirm that. ;)
Many years ago I drove an APC in a mechanized infantry battalion of the 2AD. This was in Fort Hood. On field exercises there would be all night unit movements, hundreds of armored vehicles moving through the Texas scrub forest / cattle range with black-out lights. These were tedious affairs, where you would drive a few hundred meters, following the tiny red tab lights on the back of the vehicle in front of you, and then stop and sit idling for anything from 5 minutes to an hour, with no idea what was happening ahead of you. I developed the ability to immediately lock the lateral brakes, then lean forward and rest my helmeted head on the rim of the hatch and fall instantly asleep. My squad leader was in the command hatch behind me. When the vehicle ahead of us would begin to pull away again, he would rap me sharply on the head with a stick or something, waking me up, and I would release the brakes and follow the column again.
GOP guy: “A young, privileged white person has had to confront the easily-foreseeable consequences of their actions. THIS IS THE MOST HORRIFIC THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED.”
GOP guy in about 5 minutes probably: “The Republican party believes in personal responsibility.”
That “very talented friend of mine” is this dude:
https://twitter.com/dawsonbuchanan_
Looking at his Twitter tells all you need to know. Example:
morlac
5021
That plus Trumps “Alamo” speech where he went right back to himself and dont forgot all the corporate donations giving the GOP the middle finger.
Torn out before or after the riot?
