Strollen
7933
Understandable position to hold if you think Congress will do something about it. I don’t.
Congress has had decades to fix the problem with President alone being able to start WWIII.
Tom Nicholas writes about here
Someone besides the president should have the nuclear codes | TheHill,
Jimmy Carter defense secretary, Harold Brown spent much of life trying to get Congress to fix the problems. (I see that great old man finally died in 2019)
There really isn’t an organized opposition to restricting the President use of nuclear weapons to simply response to massive Chinese or Russian attack. Yet, nothing has changed.\
Today’s WaPo article on getting the law changed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/14/milley-acted-prevent-trump-creating-disaster-dont-expect-future-generals-save-us/
RichVR
7934
But does the president actually have the unilateral ability to launch nukes? Is there no check on that power? If an insane president (Trump) wants to launch for no reason, can’t the military just ignore the obviously wrongheaded orders?
Telefrog
7935
We talked about it during the bygone days of the 25th Amendment discussions, but the short answer is no. The system is designed for a rapid response with no time for dissention. The only check is the security verification that the codes are correct and come from the legal Commander-in-Chief.
1. Is there anything anyone can do to prevent the president from “accessing the launch codes and ordering a nuclear strike”?
The answer is emphatically no. The president, and the president alone, possesses the sole authority to order a nuclear launch, and no one can legally stop him or her. Despite reports that Pelosi received assurances that there are safeguards in place in the event the president of the United States (POTUS) wants to launch a nuclear weapon, any such meaningful or effective safeguards would be illegal.
Although it may be customary for the president to consult with his White House advisers, STRATCOM (U.S. Strategic Command, the military command in charge of nuclear weapons), or the (civilian) secretary of defense, there is no legal requirement to do so on nuclear launch. Contrary to popular belief, neither the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff nor the White House chief of staff nor the (civilian) secretary of defense nor the STRATCOM chief nor the vice president are in the nuclear launch chain of command.
Strollen
7936
Yup, nope.
At each step in the chain of command and there aren’t that many (roughly 5) from President to the NCSS to the guys turning the keys. Each individual can say this is an unlawfully order, but the president as commander in chief can replace them.
As I learned when I was considering an Air Force career as Minuteman officer, you go through a battery of psychological test to see if you can turn the key knowing you are killing millions. So after first few lawyers the process is pretty automatic.
At the bottom, when the 2 Minutemen officers turn the key, IIRC there one or two other sets of keys have to be turned in your wing. So 2 random guys can’t launch a nuclear strike.
There is some safeguard on nuclear subs to prevent a Sub captain and his executive officer from launching a strike, but those are classified.
Good to know (as I watch the sub cruise past my house)
Every sub is required to have one Denzel on board to avert nuclear war.
I don’t think that is even the point of that tweet thread, that ‘Congress will do something about it.’
The point is that a military officer wrote the President out of the chain of command; which is to say, he wrote civilian authority over the military off. In this case, he did it for good reason, but Congress and the public have the right to know about the action and about the reason. Otherwise, what we’re saying is that e.g. a future Flynn could write a future President out of the chain of command secretly — because Flynn is crazy, not the other way around — and, well, that’s okay, neither Congress nor the public have any right to know. Only Bob Woodward has a right to know, and he can keep it secret until it suits him to make money off of it.
Yes, this seems like a thing that is totally going to happen.
Strollen
7941
I agree the public has a right to know, and Bob Woodward isn’t the perfect messenger. Given the risk to the world involved, i don’t think the public had the right to know prior to Jan 21, 2021. It is possible that Miley told President Biben, or maybe President-elect Biden.
i’ll be anxious to hear his testimony to the the Jan 6 committee.
Can someone help me on this? As I understand it, Milley told his Chinese counterpart that he would warn him if the US was going to attack. I don’t see anything wrong with him making that statement; I mean, our government makes promises all the time which we have no intention on keeping. I -DO- see something wrong with following through on such a promise, which obviously never happened. I feel like I must be missing something obvious. Note; IANAL, nor do I play one on TV so please forgive my ignorance.
He also told his subordinates — the joint chiefs of staff and their commands — to ignore the orders of the commander in chief; to defer, instead, to his own instructions. It’s a pretty bad precedent in a country where, per custom and law, the military holds itself accountable to the elected civil authority. Is it a crime? It seems like one, but IANAL.
Yeah, assuming that’s accurate, I’d agree it’s more problematic.
I don’t know how to determine if it’s accurate. That’s what Woodward’s book reportedly says, but who knows?
Alstein
7947
If it’s a crime, it deserves a commutation and a medal.
The military is supposed to ignore unlawful and unconstitutional orders.
Strollen
7948
Actually what he said according to the book was.
No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process. And I’m part of that procedure,” Milley told the officers, according to the book. He then went around the room, looked each officer in the eye, and asked them to verbally confirm they understood.
“Got it?” Milley asked, according to the book.
“Yes, sir.”
Which most people have interpreted has. “You need to keep me informed as to what is going on.”
Strollen
7949
Biden seems happy with Miley.
and Jen was awesome as always.
This is the fuller version being mooted around:
In response, Milley took extraordinary action, and called a secret meeting in his Pentagon office on January 8 to review the process for military action, including launching nuclear weapons. Speaking to senior military officials in charge of the National Military Command Center, the Pentagon’s war room, Milley instructed them not to take orders from anyone unless he was involved.
“No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process. And I’m part of that procedure,” Milley told the officers, according to the book. He then went around the room, looked each officer in the eye, and asked them to verbally confirm they understood.
It’s not clear to me whether they’re talking about an existing procedure or a new one he was laying out, but in any case, the first paragraph there is just as relevant as the one you quoted.
“You do the procedure and I’m part of the procedure” really sounds like plausible deniability speak for “make sure you confirm with me, no matter what the normal process on the books is”
Like in cop shows where the chief is like “you’re going to do this by the book” *wink wink*
There’s no other way to take it than you don’t do it on his say-so without my say-so.
