vyshka
7954
We have no idea yet what the exact circumstances were. For all we know he kept Pelosi in the loop on what was happening, and as has been reported secdef Esper was in the loop, as were others. I’m sure we will learn more as Congress eventually digs into it.
RichVR
7955
And if this is so, I have no problem with it.
Strollen
7956
Scott when you are on the same side as Donald Trump, Rand Paul, Josh Hawley, in believing that Miley did something wrong you really should be rethinking your position.
On AC360, today a CNN reporter who unlike 99.9999% of population has actually read the book was adamant that Miley had done nothing wrong, nothing was done in secret, General Wesley Clark backed her up and said we have top commander to top commanders conversations with our potential adversaries, all the times it is how we keep the peace. They aren’t secret but we don’t inform the public.
If Khan was as smart as he thought he was, he probably should have figured out that code.
Yes, that is the entire universe of people who think there might be a problem with the CJCOS telling the military not to follow the orders of the President, and then keeping that a secret from the American public.
Wait until the next Flynn does it to Biden. Won’t that be a hoot?
We don’t know that’s what happened. And even if it was just that, it wasn’t ignore all orders. It was don’t let the crazy bastard who’s clearly deteriorating out of rank fear of losing his prosecutorial immunity from killing 10s of millions if he orders a nuclear strike.
And you know what? I’m good with that.
Which means we should probably adjust the chain of command so the President can’t unilaterally kill millions of people on a whim. But having an individual general make that change in secret isn’t a great path to doing that.
It should be clear by now that my objection is the part about keeping it a secret, because it establishes a precedent for a repeat performance in less clear circumstances.
Yes.
Alstein
7962
That in itself is legal and likely constitutional. The military has a duty to refuse illegal orders. Orders that would be war crimes are illegal orders, even if they come from the president. Military oath is to Consitutiion not president (which worries me because of how flawed our constitution is- the oath should be to political freedom in the US)
If folks have a big problem with that, court martial the general have his fellow generals as the jury.
The precedent is scary, but 100% necessary in the face of Today’s Republican party. Then again, if Republicans had stolen the election, a 100% would have supported the military counter-couping the government and restoring the rightful winner.
ShivaX
7963
This is the correct view imo. But that requires Congress to act, so it’s probably akin to wanting a unicorn.
It seems like maybe our system of government has some flaws.
rrmorton
7965
Yeah, they’re called human beings.
I agree with rrmorton. We should place the nuclear arsenal under AI control and remove the fallible human element.
Strollen
7968
You have unusual definition of secret. According the CNN reporters both meeting had about 15 people. There was no order from Miley to keep the meeting secret. In the case of the meeting with the Chinese general, the meeting included folks from the state department. The meeting was recorded and minutes were taken.
Apparently, so does CNN:
In response, Milley took extraordinary action, and called a secret meeting in his Pentagon office on January 8 to review the process for military action, including launching nuclear weapons. Speaking to senior military officials in charge of the National Military Command Center, the Pentagon’s war room, Milley instructed them not to take orders from anyone unless he was involved.
I can’t really grasp what the point of these objections is. I think Milley probably did the right thing in trying to head off Trump, and I think he probably did the wrong thing by trying to do it unofficially and secretly, and I think he had an obligation to report what he was doing publicly, and I think it would have been better for democracy and stability if he had. And I’m not talking about call with a Chinese general at all.
Strollen
7970
The vast amount of reporting is been done by reporters who have not read the book. It is available Sept 21. So will know soon enough what happened, since Woodward has well deserved reputation for accuracy. I’m reportng what the CNN military affairs reporter Barbara Starr is saying, afaik she is the only CNN reporter who has early access to the book.
These commander to commander meetings aren’t not typically reported to the press. Robert Gates included some in his book, as did Colin Powell. Woodward has reported on a number of them in many of his books. It is generally frowned on to reveal conservations at this level to the press at the time they are going on.
I’m.Not.Talking.About.The.Call.With.A.Chinese.General.
I don’t think it is objectionable, and I don’t care about it.
Thrag
7972
Looks like it’s time to roll out this meme again:
