Reporters are confirming it was a woman who was in the street; not a bicyclist.
In Chicago it is not about safely passing a bicyclist, it is actively trying to prevent the bicyclists who are attempting to commit suicide via car. I bike myself too so I am not being anti-bike when I say that a lot of cyclists just expect cars not to hit them. Which, given how distracted drivers are, seems like a real stupid logic.
Not even including the standard biking at night in dark clothes with no lights kinds of things or switching between biking correctly like a car and biking along crosswalks through reds. Just legit “Despite my red light I am going to bike through two lanes of active cross traffic swerving around a little bit so it’s totally cool everyone. I have a helmet on but I have it unbuckled because it looks cooler”
We have a city around here that has a sign, or at least it did, that says something like Pedestrian Friendly. Yes, the city has a lot of crosswalks but it’s no more safer to step in front of a car than it is in any other city. We’ve lot a number of people, in crosswalks, in that city. And driving through there is a constant search for bikes and pedestrians who do whatever the hell they want without regard too what’s going on around them… but I’m human… so I know that’s a problem on that particular streets. I actively look for it.
I mean I pay real close attention to traffic, live in the suburbs, and I’ve been hit while biking to work by a car pulling out of a parking lot (partly obstructed view due to SUV with tinted windows blocking site lines by parking like an asshole). The only reason I wasn’t hurt was because I am always expecting the driver to do the dumbest thing possible at all moments, so when he pulled out I rolled over the hood and landed on my feet on the other side.
Had I been in ‘stupid biker’ mode, I probably wind up with a concussion, at least. Because I was moving at about 25mph.
The video in the first link shows a woman and bicycle on the ground next to an SUV with a dented front right fender and the self-driving scanning laser. It sure looks like it was a bicyclist. I feel like reporters are just quoting the official police statement, which says pedestrian outside crosswalk-- maybe this is an initial statement, given with incomplete information (and already tainted by Uber, which might hope the “jaywalking” explanation takes hold in the minds of the public)? Or maybe the video shows a completely different incident?
Oof. That’s a rough spot. It’s just over the Mill Ave. bridge and past the loop 202 overpass. Not super well lit (or at least it wasn’t last time I was there). I can understand both how the pedestrian didn’t realize the car was coming and how the human driver didn’t see her in time to take control of the vehicle and take action. It’s not a blind turn or anything, but especially at 10p, it’s a really, really bad place to jaywalk.
It could have been a biker walking their bike into the street to then get on it. I once had an older lady do this in front of me and then with her first pedal just swerve massively in traffic. I had seen her and given her a lot of space so she was fine, but she never looked.
Just to be clear, I am not defending the car in the situation at all. But biker getting ready to mount their bike is danger point.
Trust Uber to fuck things up some more.
Or it could’ve been a biker routinely riding along the road. It doesn’t look like a place where a journey would start or end, or where an inexperienced cyclist would be riding at 10pm-- but of course my only knowledge is what is seen in the video.
My theory is that Uber got the key words they wanted to get into the initial police statement “not in the crosswalk” even though that fact appears to be completely unrelated to the circumstances of the accident, since the victim was not a pedestrian and didn’t appear to be crossing the street at the time she was hit. But all the coverage I’ve seen elsewhere on the internet is already focused on the “jaywalking” angle.
This seems like common sense. But I’m sure someone is collecting data on “incidents/ mile driven.” Wouldn’t you like to see that before concluding how safe the current autonomous cars are?
In 2016, almost 6,000 pedestrians died in car accidents in the US.
What’s that going to matter after the next 3 or 4 days of “Robot Car Murders Pedestrian” headlines?
Watch out for that cyclist!
I’m sorry, Dave. I can’t do that.
Although autonomous vehicles have been tested for millions of miles, almost none of those miles are valid for comparison with typical human drivers-- most were driven with no purpose other than to test the system, on routes carefully selected to minimize the impact of traffic, weather and construction. I’m not convinced that a fair comparison-- which must only include autonomous miles driven to actually transport people or cargo-- would conclude that autonomous vehicles are safer per mile. In one sense we know prima facie they aren’t as safe, since there is not a single autonomous vehicle that can drive at normal speeds on the public roads without human supervision.
Since Level 4 autonomy is the minimum required for autonomous cars to be economically viable, but actual Level 4 is a tough nut to crack, there will be tons of pressure on companies like Uber to fake Level 4 with cars that are remotely operated by humans when they get into a tough situation-- Waymo is testing a system like this now in Arizona. The job of the human operators in that case would be odd, switching from one non-routine driving situation to the next, having to take over within a very few seconds without any context.
This is a sad incident, but I’m not surprised. I hope they can figure out what went wrong and improve their system. And I hope they don’t try to foist the responsibility off on the human who was monitoring things.
Traffic to an extent I will grant you, but in videos I’ve seen test courses are often designed specifically to test things like weather and obstacles (i.e., construction cones, debris, etc). It’s not like the companies are trying to get them approved without testing all the strange things that can happen on the road.
Looks like they have video and everything from the accident so that is positive. There has sure been a lot of conflicting reports for something that sounds like it was a generally simple tragic event.
The key thing for me though is whether a human driver would have seen the person, and slammed on the brakes in time. An automated vehicle should have at least the same reaction time and perceptive ability as a human driver, if not more.
Outside of the Uber talk, I wanted to comment on your remark. I have a lot of biking friends. They are excellent bike riders on the road from what I’ve seen. I’ve heard other people complain about bicyclists occasionally and just thought perhaps they were uptight auto drivers.
Nope. I finally saw one firsthand the other day. Evening rush hour traffic, and everything is moving slow. The bicyclist went into the oncoming traffic lane between cars coming AT him, just to jump up spots. He did that I think because there is no right hand space in the lane, and no sidewalk on that side either. Eventually he passed me and is now in front of me as we approach a stoplight. We’re about the third in line at the light. The guy then darts slightly left into the oncoming lane, passing everyone waiting at the light. When he gets to the light he briefly hesitates, then turns left through the light in between cars headed in his direction, who slowed and honked, etc. He had absolutely no regard to any traffic laws. And he was on a road bike with what appeared to be full riding gear, telling me he probably routinely rides his bike.
It was crazy and I can see where the stories come from at this point. It only takes one bad apple. :(
A lot of bike people think the laws literally don’t apply to them and that they always have the right of way. They also don’t understand anything about physics or inertia. “I have the right of way, so they have to stop.” Yeah, physics doesn’t give a shit even if you were right, that car physically can’t stop that fast and you’re going to die.
As an avid bike-commuter, I have had this argument with other biking friends:
Me: A bicycle is a vehicle and as such you must obey the traffic signs and regulations.
Buddy: No, a bike isn’t a motor vehicle, we’re treated as pedestrians and thus always have the right-of-way.
Me: That is only true if you’re on a sidewalk or crosswalk. If you’re in the road, you’re a vehicle.
Buddy: Nuh-uh!