Have they met a Jersey Giant?
Skipper
2055
I mean, we have millions in the US and billions around the world that also believe in religions. I really, really doubt the worry is about those who go overboard on UFO belief, or want to have sex with aliens or whatever. I would put that pile of people, albeit growing in number, still on the fringe of comparative numbers.
We have millions in the US that believe Trump actually won the last election for goodness sake. Those people I fear FAR more than than many others.
As to your uncle, I had an old coworker very much in that same mindset. But it wasn’t just UFOs and aliens and government conspiracy, it ran the gamut all the way to the Kennedy assassination, etc. He was a conspiracy believer of damn near anything. I haven’t reached out to him in years but I suspect he’s QAnon through and through by this point. What got me though was he was extremely intelligent. He would just chase down these things and accept the answer of the impossible as the solution instead of actual data and studies showing the opposite.
I’m not disagreeing with you, really. The way people who believe this stuff behave sometimes is definitely worth being concerned about. Whether or not UFOs or Bigfoot exist though isn’t the problem, because the people who act like idiots simply do not care about evidence. You can show them time and again that the things they believe are not supported by real evidence, and it will make no difference. And we can’t truly and incontrovertibly rule out their wacky theories * from a position of pure logic or theory* which unfortunately gives them a reason to hold on to their beliefs. From any pragmatic POV, though, the evidence is overwhelmingly, to the nth degree, against the existence of these supernatural entities. But it doesn’t matter one whit to the believers.
Scott123
2057
Yes and @TheWombat all good points.
I think another problem is letting them post “evidence” to be debunked. The above video can’t be easily debunked, nor should it. Even if we try, by the time we have our evidence and analysis ready there are 7 more claims. What to do then…
There’s a pretty big difference between “believing” in this stuff and being open to the possibility.
Once you’ve shut it down and said no, extraterrestrials can’t possibly exist, you’ve just shifted the burden of proof to yourself imo.
Scott123
2059
Nice try, but no. Warp capable, anti-gravity spaceships, or whatever nonsense technology you want to claim “it’s right there on video!”, are still on you.
Which is why a scientific approach is useful. While we can retroduce aliens as the explanation for UFOs, and we cannot in terms of pure logic rule it out (the hypotheses cannot be falsified, really), there are many many other retroductions we can make that fit far better with our existing understanding of the physical world, and which do not require us to fundamentally alter our web of belief as it were. So while UFOs could be aliens, for some value of “could,” we generally do not have to pay any consideration to that idea in practical terms.
It’s sort of like, well, Cthulhu could be down there in the Marianas Trench. But I ain’t gonna lose sleep over it, nor would I take any so-called scientist seriously who claimed he saw R’yleh.
There’s no credible evidence of Bigfoots. There’s like 1 video from the 60s and that could be a guy in a suit. There is real evidence of UFOs. From the Navy, which is a credible witness. Which is why this has all come up again.
Absolutely. There is hard evidence of something that we cannot identify as of yet. From that you can postulate an infinite number of explanations. Some of those will include aliens. Others will include spoiled grape juice and marshmallow people. Most of these can safely be discarded.
I didn’t claim anything. You did.
You kinda do have to give consideration to every possibility if you want to properly use a scientific approach. Not a lot, and not always practically, as you said, but you must be open to what you may not understand.
I get where you guys are coming from but nothing advances without possibility.
ShivaX
2065
To play Devil’s Advocate, those people are also pretty directly linked with believing JFK Jr didn’t die in a plane crash and is going to return to lead them into the future. Also everyone who says otherwise is part of a cannibal cabal that is killing and harvesting chemicals from babies to live forever.
So the link between conspiracy theories and dangerous movements is kind of a thing. Once you believe JFK Jr faked his death, or is literally Jesus, well you can start believing all sorts of things. Like everyone who disagrees with you is literally a demon, which means you’re justified in doing anything to them. Hell, you’re obligated to do those things.
Or as the famous quote says:
But once again, you don’t want to confuse hardcore “believers” with an open mind. There’s really a whole spectrum of belief. The important thing is not discarding things you don’t understand. Just my two cents.
But if you must remain open to everything you can’t disprove, you must remain open to an infinite number of them, and indeed you must give them all equal weight.
UFO images are caused by my dingleberries disrupting the Earth’s magnetic field. UFO images are caused by Tom’s dingleberries disrupting the Earth’s magnetic field. UFO images are caused by the Dalai Lama’s dingleberries disrupting the Earth’s magnetic field. And so on until you’ve considered all the beings with dingleberries.
Then: UFO images are caused by my ass crack disrupting the Earth’s magnetic field. And so on until literally every individual of every grouping of anything has been tested against the Earth’s magnetic field.
Then: UFO images are caused by the Tooth Fairy fucking a giant squid. Then: UFO images are caused by the Tooth Fairy fucking a different giant squid. And so on until you’ve considered all the individual giant squids. And then you have to matrix that against all things that might (keeping an open mind of course) fuck a giant squid.
So yes, technically you have to give weight to the possibility of UFO theories being correct — exactly as much weight as each of my propositions above, and all other possible propositions. Which is indistinguishable from giving them NO weight.
No, you give weight based on their evidence. They don’t need equal weight.
The issue is when you, me, or anybody don’t know the evidence but disregard the possibility anyway.
Scott123
2070
Not really. When a scientist mixes chemicals together and something unexpected happens, ‘aliens’ isn’t in the range of possibilities. When a highly-skilled Navy pilot says “tic tac aliens!”, it’s still not within the range of possibilities. Sorry.
The “there’s still a small chance” thinking is just a wrong attempt at reason when it’s just an underlying belief.
These arguments and evidence-discussions don’t work too much on older adults anyway. Nothing we say in this thread will change your/ their mind. It’s a built-in belief. It’s ok; an absurd 41% of American’s believe UFOs are aliens. I find that scary, a symptom of a ruined culture and education system, but that’s just my opinion.
Not much we can accomplish here - go on chatting I suppose. I do have influence over my kids at least (that’s a positive) and they already get it - lots of people believe silly things, even grown ups.
RichVR
2071
You have the cool, clear eyes
Of a seeker of wisdom and truth
Yet there’s that up-turned chin
And the grin of impetuous youth
Oh, I believe in UFOs
I believe in UFOs
I hear the sound of good, solid judgment
Whenever you talk
Yet there’s the bold, brave spring of the tiger
That quickens your walk
Oh, I believe in UFOs
I believe in UFOs
And when my faith
In my fellow man
All but falls apart
I’ve but to feel your hand grasping mine
And I take heart
I take heart
To see the cool, clear eyes
Of a seeker of wisdom and truth
Yet there’s that slam, bang, tang
Reminiscent of gin and vermouth
Oh, I believe in UFOs
Now I believe in UFOs
I believe in UFOs
I believe in UFOs …
I believe UFOs’re good for me, baby
I think that may be where we’re diverging. It’s only built-in if you don’t believe in what’s possible.
I’ll move on though, I’ve got Chicken Alfredo getting cold. 🙂
Scott123
2073
Yeah. I would say that an open mind isn’t “explanation x is possible”. Faster than light travel, for example, isn’t possible, and it actually takes a more open mind these days, with our cultural biases towards technological growth and science fiction, to know this. Anyway, enjoy!
