Yes, mechanics are top notch. It’s one of the finest single character RPGs I’ve played when it comes to combat. I also love the world building, it feels like a real place but exposition isn’t in your face, it’s more like in Dark Souls where you take things in through observation.
As for being a spiritual successor to Fallout…yes and no. Both games are post apocalyptic isometric RPGs but UnderRail is a lot more combat and exploration heavy than Fallout ever was. On the other hand, it doesn’t have nearly as much conversation or roleplaying through interaction with NPCs. Think of the game as an isometric Deus Ex and you’ll get a better idea of what it plays like.
@Rock8man Did the game ever click with you? I have a feeling it would be a little too old school for me. I used to like all the old RPGs, but I’m not sure I can play them anymore.
Nope. Never clicked. One of the brilliant things Fallout did is that they made character creation fun. For each trait and each skill and each SPECIAL stat, there is a funny little picture with Fallout boy telling you a little something about it. So the process of creating a character is really cool and a fun process. Not so much in Underrail, where you stare at numbers with no real context, since you haven’t played the game yet. It’s worse than creating a character in Baldur’s Gate, if you can imagine that.
I was hoping Tom’s stream would help, but he almost skipped past that process.
Plus I didn’t really understand the interface much better from watching his stream either.
Well he went in expecting Fallout, which the game obviously isn’t. The steam store page even says it’s focused on exploration and combat and that’s exactly what you get. The game has many similarities to Fallout (1 and 2) but this is a classic case of wrong expectations.
Second, the encounter he describes with Gorsky (Gorky 17 part in the article) is pretty early in the game. Maybe 5% or so. I can’t tell from the article how far he has progressed but based on what he wrote about the combat I’d say not very far (especially since there are many more memorable encounters later in the game). Which means he probably experienced the mechanics with low level skills, missing crucial perks and equipment that really make the combat shine. Imagine if someone had reviewed the Baldur’s Gate saga based on the first 10 hours after you step out of Candlekeep and complained that wolves and bears eat you for breakfast, that’s how this article reads to me. I also wonder what his build looked like if he had trouble on easy. UnderRail is very intuitive if you take a few minutes to read the feat and stat descriptions. There are many synergies available and you can finish the game without a minmaxed build - or at least get reasonably far to fully experience the depth of the combat system. There are some traps, doubling down on primary combat skills (crossbows, guns, melee) is a big no no, as is mixing psi with any of these, there aren’t enough feats available to fully enhance two completely different combat styles. However, you can mix with support skills like traps or throwing and psi disciplines have some unique synergies of their own.
He did raise some legitimate points though, there is no running option - because the game uses sprites so it would be too much work to basically double the amount just to introduce this feature. You can get your speed reasonably high with some gear, enough that you don’t have to look at the other monitor while your character makes its way from one side of the cell to another. Quest log is also very basic and vague, might as well not exist. And there is no map.
I was very pleased when I read some comments, it’s nice to see the game get some appreciation at places like RPS. UnderRail is aimed at a very specific type of player but I don’t think the author is in that group.
I’m giving it a try because I tend to like games you like. I’m glad you warned earlier about being patient in the beginning…It seems interminable. But after going up two levels I can see the psi attacks being more effective.
I may restart with a new character. Some of the steam guides, along with some of what you’ve said, point to not trying to make generalist builds. I would make my next character much stronger in psi and locks, and maybe not even bother with more than token points into either guns or throwing.
I would not take guns or throwing at all on a PSI build. The biggest point in favor of throwing for non-psi is aoe. Grenades, simple as that. At 45 throwing you can pick a perk that grants crit chance to grenades, coupled with high dexterity it’s very deadly. On PSI builds your dex won’t be that high in the first place, but more importantly, you’ll have many aoe PSI abilities at your disposal so you’d essentially be going for redundancy.
If you’re dead set on playing a PSI character then I’d recommend you pick all 3 psi abilities, crafting disciplines that will be used in crafting your equipment (for PSI I think all except chemistry come into play, but consult the wiki for blueprints to be sure), lockpicking and hacking. You can try fitting in stealth but you’d have to give up some stat points in order to get agility to acceptable levels. Since you’ll have high willpower you can also invest some points into talking skills if you want to solve some quests in a different manner.
That said, even PSI isn’t the swiss knife in UnderRail. In fact, around level 10-12 you’ll start running into enemies that wear coats with very high thermal resistance. I was relying on my fire spells (for cc) so much when I reached that point that it ended up being a pretty big shock. You also have to find some items before you unlock new spells and that can take a while. And in harder fights you’ll be using psi booster a lot. By all means, give it a shot but you should know in advance what the pitfalls are.
My go-to recommendation remains a stealthy smg operator with grenades as backup for aoe. But hey, it took me about 5 restarts before I settled on that build so feel free to experiment :)
Interesting…one of the guides did hint that the traditional combat shooter was a fairly sure way to go. Maybe I’ll try that instead, though in my brief encounter with those Psi bugs the pistol seemed ineffective.
In the beginning when your gear is very basic you have to wait for them to open their shell before you can do any real damage. Once you upgrade your guns a bit you can just blast them away, though.
If you got time I’d check out nerdcommando’s builds on youtube. There were some minor changes over the last few months, most notable probably being the AP cost reduction (nerf) from dex for light weapons (pistols, smgs), but I think most of his builds should still work. I posted my own version of SMG build somewhere upthread and from what I’ve read 14 dex is optimal now because of those changes.
A belated thanks for your detailed response to the RPS piece.
Often with RPGs, I hit a wall when the newness wears off and it starts to feel like a slog. I’m at that point with Underrail. The sparse quest log doesn’t help that feeling either. But, I am (for now) committed to pushing on.
I went ahead and tried with your SMG build. What a difference the first couple quests are. The psi bugs are still eating my lunch but the character is doing much better overall.
Glad to hear! Also, a tip about smg frames and barrels - once you get the feats that lower the burst cost and you put some points into dexterity look at the AP values on various frame/barrel/rapid reloader combinations and try to match them so that you get as close as possible to using full 50 AP. For example, a 16 AP burst can be used 3 times (+1 proc) per round this way. And keep in mind that Burst counts as a special attack so it benefits from Smart modules (and smart goggles too).
If you don’t mind a minor spoiler then look up the location for Mini-Izu, it’s a 5mm silenced smg that works surprisingly well, despite the small caliber. You can get it relatively early, as soon as you’re done with the prologue part of the game and unlock access to the rest of the metro.
Fallout also had some pre-made characters you could choose from. I don’t think a few of these would hurt Underrail much, as long as they don’t take away the ability to create a totally custom character for those who want to.
You have to clear a bunker? It’s a little north (up-right) and west of SGS. That area is pretty open though, if you start running into Lunatics then you took a wrong turn somewhere.
Have a look at some community maps if you’re feeling lost. If you’re in cells that have roads then you’re on the right level and just need to find Gorsky. Until you unlock access to Core City that area basically loops around on itself so he should be easy to find, just keep going west. If you’re in caves however then you’ll first need to go up one level.
Finished the second mission you get from the SGS leader, where you run into the bandits, it was bonkers. It really did pick up the pace and tension. I don’t think I would have survived without grenades, which really mess people up in this game (I’ve learned that if you don’t get the drop on someone that does have grenades, you’re likely in for a game reload).
And suddenly loot isn’t as big an issue either, but the dreaded encumbrance is rearing its head. I can see why you recommended the pack rat feat.
I really like that you get all the shit your opponents were carrying. One of the things that used to piss me off about our beloved Jagged Alliance was the limited loot drops, especially in the early part of the game. In Underrail, if they used it on you but you can beat them, you get to inherit it :-)
Yep that part is great, especially early in the game when ammo is scarce. And unlike a lot of people, I appreciate the way merchants are handled in this game. So while you do get a large selection of loot it’s best to pick the pieces with best price:weight ratio and sell them once you get to towns and outposts. I don’t know if economy got tweaked since the last time I played but I was drowning in money by the end of the game.
Grenades are indeed deadly. Back when game was released typical SMG builds didn’t really incorporate stealth - there are no mechanical (stat<->feat) synergies for stealth, smgs and grenades, but closing the distance to get full accuracy bonus for a close range weapon or getting into a good position to frag an entire group of enemies is totally worth it.
And on the subject of JA2, I actually prefer that system because it keeps the difficulty curve in check a little longer. In 1.13 you can enable full loot mode and if you leave the Drassen counter attack enabled in options you can end up with really good gear before you even get to Cambria.
