I made a heavy armor AR build at some point and it was ok, very straightforward. But the killing potential and efficiency with SMGs is much greater because of lower AP cost and the way the game is balanced. With a 7.62 smg I was looking at 4-5 kills per turn vs 2-3 with the AR. There weren’t enough targets with high health around that would justify the AR’s long bursts so I ended up with pretty bad overkill on every target. The range advantage on ARs is also somewhat pointless if you consider that a SMG class can take stealth and completely nullify that disadvantage. You can of course pick stealth with ARs too but since you need relatively high strength to wield some of the ARs it makes more sense to go with heavy armor instead.
Ok…after a good slog I have finished my first playthrough. It’s a good game, I think, but the beginning and ending are not as good as the middle. Fortunately the middle is the biggest part. But that last chunk is a poster child for all the wrong things to do in an RPG (mazes, FedEx quests, lots of ambiguity, some brutal combat, and tedium galore). Still I’m glad I played it, it was overall a lot of fun and the system is very versatile. You can solve problems a lot of ways although you still need to be very combat-capable or you’ll be miserable.
But there’s plenty to do and I didn’t finish some of the quests. The idea of another playthrough to try different character types is intriguing.
I don’t understand what the stuff inside each map sector mean. The mushroom seems to mean you can find mushrooms in that sector. But the rest I don’t understand. It’s a unique way of creating a map, regardless.
Looks like the map patch has been out for two weeks now. Lots of other changes as well - RIP dex grenade specs - http://steamcommunity.com/app/250520/discussions/0/494632768625476214/?ctp=2 . Difficulty changes sound great, might have to do a Dominating run in the future.
I wanted to love this game. I know you loved it @Bateau. But I hit this part very early on where it felt ultra grindy, and I got bored. But that’s probably me, I lose interest in RPGs too quickly.
I should probably take another look at it now.
The atmosphere and mood of this game is just awesome. Best Fallout clone since Fallout 2.
I went back to reread your comments because I didn’t understand this part of your post and it all makes sense now. I can totally see how someone could literally get lost in the early sections of the game. Happened to me a few times when I first started playing (and not just the early sections, it gets even worse later on lol). There’s an area that’s closed off by rocks (until you progress the main quest) and basically loops back on itself by going down through caves in some sections - and because the rats in these places respawn you probably thought you were going through an insanely long stretch of levels and getting nowhere.
I think a map could go a long way towards mitigating this but I haven’t played the game yet since the patch so I can’t confirm - let’s face it, map implementations in some games leave a lot to be desired, and I’m not ready to claim that having an ingame map in UnderRail is a solution until I actually try it out.
Also, if you do happen to restart I would advise you to pick Classic over Oddity. Oddity is a genius system that really rewards exploration but it can also cause relatively long stretches where you’re getting few or no new oddities which will severely slow down the growth of your character and probably make you feel like you’re getting nowhere. With Classic you get XP for kills so you can make excellent progress just by exploring the caves and killing whatever inhabits them.
Wow, that is a lot of patching for a game that’s been out a while. Always thankful and appreciative of dedicated developers.
Looks like they beefed up chemical pistols and energy weapons. That’s good. I found the chemical weapons could be useful at times. I also found it curious that energy weapons were not particularly impressive in the game so this helps.
Yes. It was endless rats. Exactly.
So I’ll revisit in Classic mode. I guess I need to restart?z
Probably, but since the game got patched so many times I’d advise you to go through the options first.
It’d be interesting to do an OMM-style ‘start-to-rat’ countdown for CRPGs. Fallout and Oblivion would get pretty high (low?) marks.
Matt Barton would love this!!
@tylertoo: Played a bit today to test out the map system and I have to say I like it. It could be a little better - for example it doesn’t show map transitions and the “in between” levels like secrets passages are not mapped but this is honestly great for getting a feel for where you are in the world. I’ve also been making use of the custom notes system to mark any POIs, like boxes or doors I couldn’t open due to insufficient skill, or which side of the cell is blocked by rocks, etc.
Needless to say, I got sucked in pretty hard again. This game really ticks all the right boxes :)
Bateau, I had problems getting into this when I tried it a couple years ago. Is this a similar thing to Rimworld where if I just sit down with focus and free-time this game will grab me? How does it compare/contrast with Fallout 2?
Haven’t played Rimworld so I don’t know how it compares. But yeah, if you can power through the initial section I think the game will really grab you. Beginning is not exactly slow, but once you get some good feats and mid tier gear the combat really starts to shine. As for Fallout 2, UnderRail is a lot more exploration and combat focused. This gives it (imo) a lot better pace since you don’t spend as much going around gathering quests and talking to people. It also has rock solid mechanics and very tactical combat, and it’s very systems driven - enemies react to sound, camera alerts, alarms, calls for backup, they’ll search for you if you try to break line of sight and stealth in the middle of combat (which is possible!), etc.
To give you an idea of how it plays I’ll describe one of the early game locations:
You’re tasked with getting the keycard for the vault from somewhere in the complex. You don’t know where the card is so you have to search for it. The complex has lots of offices - some are locked, some aren’t. You can get around through vents, you can lockpick doors, you can fix the generator to unlock access to the next level without going through enemies. Next level has patrolling sentry bots and cameras - you can snipe the cameras (which have thermal vision and see through stealth) and try to avoid detection by moving around. Or you can set up ambushes with emp or high explosive mines and take out bots one by one and then explore the level in peace. Final area has raiders with a powered down turret that you can hack and turn against them, or you take them out one by one silently before storming the room with hostages.
What’s most surprising however is just how much wiggle room you have. This game isn’t like Shadowrun for example, where the encounters are carefully constructed and you’re basically just playing along with what the designer intended. In UnderRail you can start the combat on your terms - you can scout ahead, set up chokepoints, get in close and throw a grenade on a bunched up group, find a nice narrow approach and snipe enemies, it’s honestly a little hard to explain just how much freedom every encounter offers. And there are hundreds of them, and each of them memorable. Perhaps you’re playing a sniper and you end up in a dark area without NVG so your precision tanks (yep, light level affects your accuracy!). What do you do? Well, you could throw flares and hope you catch some enemies in their radius, but it’s probably better if you secure the area first with traps or mines. It’s all up to you and how you built your character. Really, the only thing the combat is missing is cover system, but I think it’s probably better that that it doesn’t have one because it would slow down the game too much. TTK is relatively low and once you’re geared you can usually wrap up an encounter in 2 or 3 well executed turns.
The new Hard mode (not Dominating) seems harder than the old one. A lot of encounter were also revamped and it feels like there are more enemies in some places than before. It also feels like there are more oddities available in the early stages of the game, I’m now level 11.5 and just started clearing Camp Hathor quests and haven’t even touched Rail Crossing. If I’m not mistaken I usually hit around 12 only after clearing RC and surrounding areas.
I’ve actually been playing two characters in parallel, smg spec ops and a crossbow character, and it was great seeing how they tackled the (revamped) early game and what the weakness of both characters were. For now though I’ve settled with the crossbow char because it has higher INT which enables me to craft higher tier items a little faster and well, I love crafting in this game, it really enhances your entire character.
Despite playing this game for a total of over 400h since Early Access I’m still constantly blown away by just how good it is - the tactical depth is superb, build variety is amazing, game offers viable playstyles that are very underrepresented in other rpgs (traps, throwing, crossbows, fist weapons), the sheer amount of content and polish is mind boggling. I just can’t wrap my mind around it, a game this good should not exist in this universe, it’s an anomaly.
Realised I got this free with an inXile kickstarter pledge (or maybe Fig). Looking at the reviews on Steam, this guy left a poor review and rage uninstalled because they added the map.
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197973899637/recommended/250520/
He sounds derailed.
I love the map, it’s not 100% accurate (as I explained in one of the posts above) but it’s amazing for keeping track of places. I literally can’t remember the last time I used custom map notes in a game before I started this playthrough.
When I played the game, at first, I had no map, which is great for immersion, so I can sorta sympathize with the guy. But I eventually went with an Excel map someone made.