Joe_M
1821
60 isn’t needed. Democrats (read: Rahm/Obama) wed themselves to Big Pharma and created this mythical barrier of 60 so that they could ram through their shitty legislation with the excuse that anything less terrible couldn’t be passed. It’s a complete fucking joke that also happens to be exactly what Obama wanted all along. I don’t think it’s some wild coincidence.
Jazar
1822
This gives you an idea of how filibusters are being abused as of late:
As pointed out, the filibuster until very recently was used for very few votes, but as time has gone on the two parties - mostly the Republicans though, because the Democrats are cowards - have discovered they can completely stonewall the other party’s agenda if they want. If the Democrats basically don’t have the balls to eliminate it the only thing they can do is reconciliation, which has to be somehow revenue-related and expires after ten years. That’s how Bush did virtually his entire agenda the Democrats opposed.
Is it really impossible for them to figure out how to cut a couple of Republicans from the herd and find ways to pressure them into voting their way?
Yes, it is. Who the hell would these Republicans be? Snowe is literally the only one, and she yanked their chain all last year, and as of December was saying they still needed more time, which is laughable.
Are they really incapable of framing a bill in a way that would make it so popular that it would be political suicide for some GOP Senator to vote against it?
Yes, they apparently are.
And who is going to broadcast that message for them?
wahoo
1825
Two new polls out showing that either 55%(USA/Gallop) or 61%(Ras) of folks want health care stopped. PPP has a poll out showing Huckabee leading Obama.
Dems are truly screwed. They lost the debate on health care months along. I’m pretty impressed that they’ve gotten so many votes pushing legislation so unpopular.
You can argue that people will like the bill better once it passes, but that’s a pretty scary argument looking at how many folks don’t like it at the time.
jeffd
1826
fwiw wahoo I don’t think it’s a scary argument. People are taking cues from the media and from the process itself. The media is portraying the bill as an impending failure, so of course voters don’t like it.
It is now time for the democrats to realize they need bipartisan support to get anything done. Any new entitlement plan should have broad based support with all parties as well as the common citizens’.
The major downfall of the Dem bill is that it is going to raise premiums and out of pocket expenses for all parties involved, except for union members and government workers (until 2017).
It does nothing to control costs or empower the consumer. It adds 31 million citizens to the system (increase demand) without doing anything with the supply (more doctors, emergency rooms, hospitals, nurses, and clinics).
Not to mention the 20+ million illegals currently in our country. While their bill doesn’t explicitly allow illegals, it isn’t strong enough in preventing free health care for them, either. Also, with the talk of amnesty for illegals still on the table that would be another way they get access to the system.
In essence it puts industries that are in the president’s penalty box (health insurers, medical device manufacturers, big pharm) and shows preference for the president’s support base (Government Motors, SEIU, and AFL/CIO) without addressing the fundamental reasons for skyrocketing costs.
Menzo
1828
This is why the bill failed. I don’t want to vote for that system, it sounds horrible!
Except that’s not at all the reality. You don’t see anything in there about preventing HC cancellations because of pre-existing conditions. The 31 million new people getting HC are positioned not in terms of the fact that this is a HUGE humanitarian effort that will overall be positive for us in the long run, but that they are apparently free-loaders who are going to cost us money.
And extra points for the scare tactics on illegal immigrants. They’re going to steal our healthcare! Nevermind the fact that they’re already a burden on the system - this doesn’t change anything.
Ezdaar
1829
Protip: Government Motors is too long. You need to shorten it to something easy and catchy like M$
jeffd
1830
re Ransomvik: I really like it when posters don’t waste any time in making it clear they have no idea what they’re talking about. Saves me the kind of time I initially wasted on the likes of brettmcd.
The demand is already here – the 31 million uninsured are already using emergency rooms, doctors, etc. Unless you’re suggesting that the health care bill is going to result in an explosion of fucking, and we’re on the brink of an utterly unprecedented baby boom.
You know that theory a couple months ago that we’d have more than 60 votes next session? 54.
Right now, the program is showing that Democrats will retain an average of 54.7 seats in the 112th Congress. The distribution, however, is slightly asymmetrical, so the median number is 54, and the modal number is 53.
Tell me where I went wrong.
Jazar
1834
This is Bipartisanship in US congress (paraphrased from jamesinclair@gaf):
Dem majority: We want to pass this Health Care bill
Republicans: No
D: C’mon!
R: No.
D: Fine, we’ll make some changes
R: No
D: Ok How about more changes!
R: No.
Droopy dog: I don’t like it either. Meeeehh
D: Fine, we give up.
Republican majority: We want to pass this patriot act bill
D: We don’t like it
R: We’re passing it.
D: Let’s make changes?
R: No
D: But we don’t like it
R: We don’t care
D: Just this one amendment…
R: No
D: Please?
R: No.
D: Fine, we’ll agree to it.
So, what to do with the uninsured? After all, the premise of the bill’s primary focus is ensure that 97%-98%+ of Americans are insured.
10 million of the uninsured earn more than 300% of the federal poverty level. Some of this number could afford private insurance but choose not to pay. 5 million are childless adults age 18-34 a.k.a. the “young invincibles.”
7.5 million of the uninsured already qualify for existing Medicaid or SCHIP programs but haven’t signed up.
In lieu of the trillion dollar price tag, it would be more cost effective to drop buckets of cash from helicopters in front of emergency rooms nationwide.
:) Very funny. You forgot the part about
R: if you don’t pass this bill, the terrorists win. Osama will literally come to the homeland and slap your granny.
D: OK
jeffd
1837
If you’re that interested, read the previous 60 pages of this thread.
I suspect you’re not actually that interested though. ;)
A nurse practitioner explains why just expanding medicaid won’t work
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/01/23/slim-medicaid-emw/
As a primary care nurse practitioner who has worked as one of those rare Medicaid providers in inner-city neighborhoods and in community health centers, I want to offer yet another view of why an incremental approach to health care reform won’t work.
One of the provisions that would likely be included in a pared down bill is some form of Medicaid expansion. But simply increasing the number of people eligible for Medicaid would not necessarily expand access to care. Why? Mostly because there aren’t enough Medicaid providers to service the current beneficiaries and expanding the program would only exacerbate provider shortages. Congress’ comprehensive approach to reform addressed this problem in several ways:
- Increased funding for Community Health Centers: These community clinics are already established in neighborhoods that serve Medicaid patients. The reform bills would expand and enhance these centers by allowing them to see an additional 35-45 million patients and ultimately save up to $23 billion through the provision of preventive services and better coordinated care.
- Increased funding for National Health Service Corps: The NHSC provides scholarships and loan repayment to health professionals who agree to work in areas with health professional shortages. The House and Senate health care bills provide funding for over 8,000 clinicians allowing them to serve millions of newly covered Americans.
- Boosting Medicaid primary care payments to Medicare rates: Medicaid typically pays significantly less than Medicare, which in turn tends to pay less than private insurance. As a result, it’s often hard to find providers to participate in the Medicaid program. The House bill would increase Medicaid payments to primary care doctors to same rates that Medicare pays. This would not only help Medicaid beneficiaries get access to care, it would also give an extra financial boost to primary care clinicians, who desperately need it.
- Increasing Medicare primary care payments: There is near universal agreement that we must increase reimbursement rates for services provided by primary care specialties. This would not only reward those currently delivering primary care but also help make the field of primary care more attractive by sending a message to medical students about what we think is important in the health care system. Many acknowledge this won’t completely solve the current primary care physician shortage but we are seeing some early indicators that it may be helping. Just this week, I learned that the University of New Mexico, Department of Family and Community Medicine has seen an uncharacteristically large increase in applicants into their family medicine residency programs – presumably because of the increased emphasis on primary care in the developing bill. Though this only directly affects Medicare beneficiaries, other payers undoubtedly follow Medicare’s lead.
So this is the puzzle of health care reform where Senator Rockefeller notes, “…Everything fits together.” “It’s very hard to say ‘We could just cut this out’ and do that.” Though I’d like to say the health care reform bill is a finely woven safety net, I don’t think it’s quite that secure. It is more like a quilt knitted together over this past year by many thoughtful individuals. Collectively it works but a few strands of yarn here and there just won’t offer the protection the nation desperately needs.
The President needs to explain to people why just cutting this thing up or only passing popular measures just won’t work
Short version of new polling crosstabs.
- People’s information about what’s in the bill is entirely wrong.
- Everything in the bill is actually popular, except for taxes and the individual mandate.
- Way to fucking go, Democratic sales team.
Perhaps we can resurrect FDR and have him give a speech:
Put down that coffee. Coffee is for closers.
From Atrios, this explains a lot:
The Obama legislative agenda was built around an “advancing tide” theory.
Democrats would start with bills that targeted relatively narrow problems, such as expanding health care for low-income children, reforming Pentagon contracting practices and curbing abuses by credit-card companies. Republicans would see the victories stack up and would want to take credit alongside a popular president. As momentum built, larger bipartisan coalitions would form to tackle more ambitious initiatives.
A President who knows anything at all about the opposition party would be nice.
