United States Healthcare Reform

Lh_owon · 2010-02-04T16:07:55.000Z

Fuck’s sake America, every time I think you’re recovering from the crazy you go and screw up.

Andy_Bates · 2010-02-04T19:52:49.000Z

Did anyone notice the story about the Canadian premier who came to the United Stated to get heart surgery?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/02/world/AP-CN-Canada-Premiers-Surgery.html

He must be doing it out of pity for our poor, low-quality, expensive healthcare system. That’s the only explanation; after all, I’m sure that Canada’s universal healthcare system is much better and cheaper.

Tankero · 2010-02-04T19:54:17.000Z

And there you have it, the trickle-down theory applied to healthcare.

AaronSofaer · 2010-02-04T20:06:16.000Z

JeffL:

But who cares??? They have no power, only the power the Democrats give them. Again - this is 100% in the Democrats court. 100%. They can pass the HCR if they want to. Or they can use all kinds of excuses to not pass it. Now we get to see what the Democrats really stand for.

Maybe the House thinks that the Senate bill sucks, and they don’t want to pass it because it’d be a step back, or lengthen the time until an actual good bill passes.

That’s what some of the House Representatives have flatly stated.

Hawkeye_Fierce · 2010-02-04T20:29:18.000Z

Andy Bates:

Did anyone notice the story about the Canadian premier who came to the United Stated to get heart surgery?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/02/world/AP-CN-Canada-Premiers-Surgery.html

He must be doing it out of pity for our poor, low-quality, expensive healthcare system. That’s the only explanation; after all, I’m sure that Canada’s universal healthcare system is much better and cheaper.

A rich person wants a health care system that caters to the rich? SHOCKING

Pogo · 2010-02-04T20:35:23.000Z

Maybe Canada is so god damn good at this that even a rich person can’t jump straight to the front of the line for heart surgery there, signifying that his life isn’t more important than anyone else that can afford it? Oh no!

inactive_user · 2010-02-04T21:41:18.000Z

Pogo:

Maybe Canada is so god damn good at this that even a rich person can’t jump straight to the front of the line for heart surgery there, signifying that his life isn’t more important than anyone else that can afford it? Oh no!

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA YOU COMMIE FUCK

Andy_Bates · 2010-02-04T21:54:02.000Z

Hawkeye Fierce:

A rich person wants a health care system that caters to the rich? SHOCKING

The argument has been made that the U.S. healthcare system is terrible in absolute terms, not that it “caters to the rich.” You don’t hear Democrats in Congress saying, “Yes, the U.S. healthcare system is great, but it only caters to the rich.”

Pogo:

Maybe Canada is so god damn good at this that even a rich person can’t jump straight to the front of the line for heart surgery there, signifying that his life isn’t more important than anyone else that can afford it?

I’ve never heard of scarcity as an indication that something is “good.” By that argument, canned food in the Soviet Union must have been incredible; otherwise, why were there such long lines for it??

And you have a limited understanding of capitalism if you believe that “will to pay more”*is equivalent to “more important.”

Jason_McCullough · 2010-02-04T21:58:10.000Z

Can you point to someone saying the US health care system does a bad job for rich people? I’d say it’s the one thing it’s good at.

magnet · 2010-02-04T22:01:32.000Z

The argument has been made that the U.S. healthcare system is terrible in absolute terms

Actually, the argument has been made that the U.S. healthcare system is terribly inefficient in absolute terms, not that it produces terrible outcomes in absolute terms.

Andy_Bates · 2010-02-04T22:09:53.000Z

magnet:

Actually, the argument has been made that the U.S. healthcare system is terribly inefficient in absolute terms, not that it produces terrible outcomes in absolute terms.

“The US lags behind other wealthy nations in such measures as infant mortality and life expectancy. Currently the U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than most of the world’s industrialized nations. USA’s life expectancy lags 42nd in the world, after most rich nations.… The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study). A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.”

“Infant mortality,”“life expectancy,”“37th in overall performance”*and “72nd by overall level of health” are all “terrible outcomes in absolute terms,”*and none of them are qualified by the amount of money spent on healthcare.

magnet · 2010-02-04T22:18:14.000Z

Sorry, I hadn’t realized you meant to include outcomes for the uninsured. Yes, those are terrible.

Pogo · 2010-02-04T22:25:28.000Z

Andy Bates:

The argument has been made that the U.S. healthcare system is terrible in absolute terms, not that it “caters to the rich.” You don’t hear Democrats in Congress saying, “Yes, the U.S. healthcare system is great, but it only caters to the rich.”

I’ve never heard of scarcity as an indication that something is “good.” By that argument, canned food in the Soviet Union must have been incredible; otherwise, why were there such long lines for it??

And you have a limited understanding of capitalism if you believe that “will to pay more”*is equivalent to “more important.”

I forgot this was the thread where we just jumped right into this. We’re talking about rich people here. Middle class people don’t just get heart surgery at the drop of a dime.The average wait time for cardiac surgery is 4 weeks over there. And if your life depended on it, you bet your ass you’d get it in a day or two.

If the dude is coming here because the US has some of the best heart surgeons in the world, and he can afford it, great. I know I can’t.

Adam_Eayrs · 2010-02-04T22:27:40.000Z

It’s also very possible that public insurance is footing the bill for this. It’s a bit too early to start making judgments.

jeffd · 2010-02-04T22:38:32.000Z

Andy Bates:

Did anyone notice the story about the Canadian premier who came to the United Stated to get heart surgery?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/02/world/AP-CN-Canada-Premiers-Surgery.html

He must be doing it out of pity for our poor, low-quality, expensive healthcare system. That’s the only explanation; after all, I’m sure that Canada’s universal healthcare system is much better and cheaper.

I like it when people post stuff like this. Makes it easy to know who I can safely ignore.

Eric_T_Cheng · 2010-02-04T22:49:48.000Z

Andy Bates:

Did anyone notice the story about the Canadian premier who came to the United Stated to get heart surgery?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/02/world/AP-CN-Canada-Premiers-Surgery.html

He must be doing it out of pity for our poor, low-quality, expensive healthcare system. That’s the only explanation; after all, I’m sure that Canada’s universal healthcare system is much better and cheaper.

His reps haven’t said exactly why he’s going to an undisclosed US hospital for a major heart surgery when he could have gone to the University of Ottawa Heart Institute.

Private citizens have the right NOT to use a Canadian hospital and go to a foreign hospital out of pocket. However, occasionally Canadians will be sent to American hospitals – all paid for by the government health insurance (with no bureaucratic red tape) – if the facilities in Canada are not sufficient (such as for premature babies).

Remember, if you have a dire medical emergency you will get top priority but non-life threatening operations people will have to wait regrettably in long queues.

Brettmcd · 2010-02-04T23:15:34.000Z

jeffd:

I like it when people post stuff like this. Makes it easy to know who I can safely ignore.

Thats simple for people like you, your mind is so small and closed that you ignore anyone who has a single thought different then your own.

Andy_Bates · 2010-02-04T23:25:35.000Z

jeffd:

I like it when people post stuff like this. Makes it easy to know who I can safely ignore.

Ignoring people with differing opinions: the mark of a true intellectual.

Lh_owon · 2010-02-04T23:26:46.000Z

Brettmcd:

Thats simple for people like you, your mind is so small and closed that you ignore anyone who has a single thought different then your own.

Hey, at least he isn’t dumb enough to think a system implemented in all industrialized countries with the sole exception of your own is an inherently bad thing.

MikeSofaer · 2010-02-04T23:36:14.000Z

Brettmcd:

Thats simple for people like you, your mind is so small and closed that you ignore anyone who has a single thought different then your own.

Andy Bates:

Ignoring people with differing opinions: the mark of a true intellectual.

I formed the opinion a few weeks ago that Andy is basically Brett with less self-awareness and no poetry, but I didn’t expect quite this obvious a confirmation; it’s almost lazy narrative on the part of the universe.