US Government Shutdown Watch: 2018 Edition. More Bricks in the Wall?

In a sane system, maybe.

But, this is America.

Nope.

The majority leader gets to decide what comes to the floor for a vote.

If you want to talk about legislation that abolishes the TSA, fine and dandy. But that’s a very different subject and it has its own thread. What we’re talking about here is a government shutdown. The shutdown will never make the TSA disappear by itself - again, that would require a law; even if the TSA isn’t staffed it still exists on paper. What we’re talking about is what happens if TSA workers stop showing up for work if they don’t get paid. (An interesting question is whether flights today could even legally depart if the passengers haven’t gone through TSA security - honestly I don’t know enough about the law to say.)

Handwaving away the lessons of history is never a good idea, however popular our fearless leader may have made the tactic.

The skyjacking era is on point here, because what you appear to be advocating (in the context of this shutdown discussion) is going back to the days when there were literally no security lines or metal detectors and anybody who wanted to could just stroll on to a plane with a gun or a bomb. We did in fact do it that way once upon a time; doing it that way led to an epidemic of skyjacking back then, and today would probably lead to a bunch of suicide bombings on planes (which can easily ignore cockpit safety features and passenger resistance, because the bomber is under no obligation to announce what they’re doing.) So we changed the way we did things to address the problem. Read that second link.

Okay, we’ll let some guards continue operate security theater metal detectors and scanners if that makes people happy. I’m sure you’re aware that was happening long before 9/11 and the creation of the TSA.

But what we need to get rid of is imbecilic rules like 2-ounce fluid limits and shoe scans, absurdly broken no-fly lists there is no way for anyone to fix, total lack of legal recourse versus wantonly illegal TSA actions, and the general lack of any way for a citizen to deal with these minimum-wage gestapo types. All these people should be subject to ordinary police as well as FBI criminal investigation when they commit crimes, and all their decisions should be routinely appealable to open public courts. In other words, the constitutional right to due process should actually be made available, which it currently is not.

But we can’t “let some guards continue operate security theater metal detectors and scanners if that makes people happy.” Because what we’re talking about is there being zero funds available to pay TSA workers. Because of the government shutdown. [Edit: and it’s not clear, to me anyway, that non-TSA employees can do this work under the current law.]

The all-purpose place for discussing how the TSA sucks soooooooooooooooo much is over here.

So long as the TSA operates in its current fashion, it does more harm than good and so it would be good if they didn’t report to work.

Maybe we could take a lesson from Japanese elementary schools, where rather than having a janitorial staff the kids themselves are responsible for the sweeping and cleaning. After you check in and pass security, there’s a good chunk of time while you wait for your flight. During that time the arrived passengers could operate the security theater for the newly arriving passengers. And then every 30 minutes or so they could hand things off, as one wave of passengers gets on their flights and the next wave takes over the security theater. I feel like it would be a good learning experience, both for adults and kids.

Give 'em guns and they might be onto something!

I couldn’t care less about your experience. I do care that United flight 93 was hijacked. That’s my point. It’s not always about you, Nesrie.

-Tom

Newt Gingrich, is that you?

It’s really remarkable that the men and women on United flight 93 did more to prevent another 9/11 than the entire TSA.

-Tom

Yeah, but he was famously wrong. So, not a good quote to choose to read out if you aren’t endorsing his (wrong) view.

On the TSA, it’s almost all theater. It says a lot that they aren’t on the list of emergency / essential people who get paid even when the government is shut down. I’m not saying there isn’t any need for security screening for commercial air travel, but what we have is stupid, a bizarre combination of inconvenient and ineffective carried out by what amounts to the lowest bidder.

That’s no less true in the UK, and it’s private sector here.

At least in the UK the screeners are reasonable and civil, and the worst of the theater is that bit largely mandated by the US for international travel. That’s been my experience, anyway. I do a lot of international travel, and the transition in experience between the US and basically anywhere else is eye-opening.

Anyone who flies a lot knows the TSA is more about theater than security. But we can’t have no security, either. At a minimum, we need handguns screened so casual, drunken arguments don’t escalate into holes in the fuselage. Also, it needs to be a planned transition. Right now, if TSA stops showing up, flights will be grounded.

There are a small number of airports that use private security now instead of TSA. It’s mostly smaller facilities, but SFO, MCI and SEA are on the list.

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Four?

Curiously enough, I was in San Rafael (CA) last night waiting for Mrs. Kub, and noticed a plaque in honor of a San Rafael resident who was on Flight 93. Immediately brought me back to this discussion, as well as when Mrs. Kub and I stopped at a rest stop in PA where they were building the National Memorial a few years back (open now, I guess). Both were (are) very powerful.

IMHO, bombs more than handguns.