Exactly so.
Trump doesn’t get his steel slat 80-foot wall covering 250 miles. He gets a 55-foot extension of bollard fencing that already exists, on a worse deal than the one he had before Christmas and the longest government shutdown in history.
House Democrats get to play the good guy. They checked the idiot-in-charge and prevented him from realizing one of his most xenophobic and racist campaign promises. Senate Republicans learn that they don’t need to fear Trump as much as they maybe did the first two years of DJT’s term. Which could be important over the next year.
For Trump, he cedes some more power, and will lose some enthusiasm within his base.
If Democrats go to the brink on this deal, it’s going to be a huge expenditure of political capital for nothing. They’re going to look like the ones at fault for the next shutdown.
Agreed. Refusing to vote for anything reasonable that will keep the government open would be a bad look, imo, especially because it would disabuse the notion that the first shutdown was Trump’s fault.
magnet
2707
Democrats had considerably less power last year. And they caused a shutdown after demanding action on immigration. And thus they took the blame.
You may recall a more recent shutdown, in which Republicans shutdown after demanding action on immigration. And Republicans took the blame.
As long as one side wants to reopen government and the other is demanding action, the latter will take the blame for a shutdown. I don’t see why Democrats need to support anything at all, besides a CR to reopen government.
magnet
2708
“Bollard fencing” is the same as “steel slats”.
So he gets 55 miles of steel slats, instead of 250 miles. A quarter of the money he demanded, to accomplish a quarter of his goal. Do Democrats get a quarter of what they demanded?
The parameters of this agreement were largely defined in the 12/19/18 compromise, when both the House and Senate thought they had a deal the White House would sign.
For the public, the nuance of “Now the Democrats control the House, so…” is going to be lost. The Democrats walking away from a deal they negotiated – twice – is probably a non-starter, from a perception standpoint.
That is not this:
Or this, from the start of the shutdown on 12-21-18:
Since Thursday, Mr. Trump has taken to referring to the proposed structure as “steel slats,” and in one tweet, he suggested they would have a certain aesthetic quality.
“The Democrats, are saying loud and clear that they do not want to build a Concrete Wall - but we are not building a Concrete Wall, we are building artistically designed steel slats, so that you can easily see through it,” he tweeted earlier this week.
Government fence is more expensive.
Must be a decent compromise, since it feels like a loss to all sides. We on the left are busy convincing ourselves that giving even partial “physical barrier” funding is all right, and the right are convincing themselves that failing to get any real border security increase is a good thing. With plenty of naysayers on both sides, of course. Process working as intended!
rowe33
2713
Has the contract already been awarded to the Eric & Donnie Bigly Fencing Co. yet?
Timex
2714
Folks need to keep in mind that while it may seem like Pelosi is in the drivers’ seat, she’s not. The GOP still controls the Senate and the Presidency.
She’s playing her hand exceptionally well, but some of you guys who are saying, “never compromise on anything!” need to be realistic. You ain’t gonna get what you want while you only control the house. And simply shutting down the entirety of government is definitely NOT what you want. Because you want a government that actually does stuff, right? So you can’t just refuse to compromise. You HAVE to compromise.
Again, Pelosi is playing this well. Getting Trump to slink away with his tail between his legs, effectively losing ground to the Dem’s after screwing himself over with a failed shutdown tantrum? That’s an immense political victory.
magnet
2715
I am always in favor of compromise. But compromise means that both sides start by conceding the things that both sides want. In this case, both sides want to keep government open. Republicans pretended that they didn’t want this, but their bluff was called.
After both sides get what both sides want, then they discuss the things that only one side wants. Democrats don’t want any wall funds (as far as I can tell). So if Republicans want any wall funds, they need to give Democrats something in exchange. That’s how compromise works. “They have more power than us, so we get nothing” is not compromise. It’s surrender.
I mean, this is Negotiation 101. If someone wants to negotiate with you, then by definition you have power.
If Republicans are unwilling to offer anything valuable to Democrats in exchange for wall funding, then both sides will simply have to offer the things that they both want, ie offer a clean budget resolution to keep government open.
Timex
2716
Dude, the Democrats aren’t against making barriers on the southern border.
magnet
2717
I thought they wanted to maintain existing barriers but were opposed to building new barriers. Particularly along sensitive areas, like wildlife refuges
But I might be mistaken. If both sides actually want these new barriers, then of course it’s a no brainer. Note that “want” is different from “not opposed to”.
Yeah, this. There isn’t any need for it given today’s technology.
But while I don’t like this deal given the reality of divided gov’t it’s probably the best we can hope for. Democrats really don’t want to get painted as being at fault, and those that are harmed by a shutdown aren’t going to be happy if they face more time without pay over 55’. If trump vetoes it and Republicans vote not to override, then it’s on them.
There’s a 75% surcharge on any government project that is siphoned off to fund Area 51. This was in the documentary Independence Day.
Scuzz
2721
Assuming this agreement goes thru, and Trump signs it, the GOP battle cry (or probably just Trump’s battle cry) in 2020 will be how little the Dems care about the security of the USA. Every time a Latino commits a crime, or is accused of committing a crime, the GOP will scream how it is the Dems fault.
It is what they will do.
I don’t think so Rod. If Democrats held one or two more seats in the Senate they might have been able to stop it entirely, but with 53 R’s in the Senate (plus at least Manchin) she has to play the hand she’s dealt. It’s not the win Timex says it is, but neither is it total capitulation.
Scuzz
2723
I don’t think $1.75b to build or repair a fence is worth closing the government down. As long as they didn’t give Trump his $5.7b this is a Dem victory.
Timex
2724
So, to be clear, you think the government should shut down.
That’s your desired outcome.
rowe33
2725
They already say this no matter what though. Standard Republican bullshit.
