US Government Shutdown Watch: 2018 Edition. More Bricks in the Wall?

[Alstein]

Dems need to make some sort of mechanism to prevent future shutdowns from causing so much pain to be part of their platform.

[Telefrog]

Negotiation means you get a change to the status quo you want, and your counterparty gets a change to the status quo they want.

And apparently this deal gives neither side exactly what they started off wanting, but does give them something. How is this “the status quo?”

[magnet]

I understand that. Which is why I want to understand what our side won. I don’t mean that rhetorically. We won a “reduction in beds” but I want to understand the practical benefits, so I can compare it to any concessions made by Democrats.

[ArmandoPenblade]

Particularly given that the reduction is perhaps an actual increase, per the above-linked article?

[Nesrie]

Not having to pay for a 25 billion dollar worthless wall is something. It’s 55 feet of new wall and maintenance of the existing ones… you could almost call that… reasonable.

[ArmandoPenblade]

But again, to Magnet’s point, we already weren’t paying for a $25b wall. Starting to pay for a fraction of it, while tacitly acknowledging that ICE has been running unfunded beds to increase their detention capabilities by increasing their funding to a figure between “what was allowed” and “what was actually happening” feels like giving up twice.

[magnet]

Not having to pay for a 25 billion dollar worthless wall is something.

No it’s not. Because Republicans never had $25 billion for a wall.

[Nesrie]

But again, to Magnet’s point, we already weren’t paying for a $25b wall.

Maybe you haven’t been keeping up with current events pal, but Democrats don’t control the Senate or the Executive branch. It’s not reasonable to expect only Democratic policies at this point.

psst: that first line is a stolen quote from a movie.

[scottagibson]

Pelosi waving the white flag here.

Good grief.

[magnet]

But Republicans don’t control the House. So $25 billion for a wall is literally impossible. They don’t have it, and they can’t ever have it. So they can’t trade it for something else.

[ArmandoPenblade]

I’m more explaining why it feels like a loss. I understand why we’re losing: we let people in red states vote :P

[Nesrie]

But Republicans don’t control the House. So $25 billion for a wall is literally impossible.

You don’t think our idiot in chief was more than willing to shut our government down for months, cross his arms and pout?

The deal is the Democrats gained the house, but they don’t control the government. The Republicans will still get wins. This is mostly status quo, and looking back and what we’ve endured under this presidency, that’s fine.

I’m more explaining why it feels like a loss. I understand why we’re losing: we let people in red states vote :P

It’s not a loss. It’s taken into account reality. Voting mattered, and we’'re suffering from the results of it from years ago.

[Rod_Humble]

Pelosi waving the white flag here. To be clear a single dollar for his racist wall is a surrender to Trump and utterly disgusting.

Looks like the ones who doubted Pelosi had what it took to stop Trump were right.

So, to be clear, you think the government should shut down.

That’s your desired outcome.

So to be clear you think Trump’s wall should be 100% built.

That is your desired outcome.

[ArmandoPenblade]

It’s not a loss. It’s taken into account reality. Voting mattered, and we’'re suffering from the results of it from years ago.

Border security is a loss in my book, both morally and financially :)

We are suffering the results of 60m racists voting for Republicans. Those results are losses.

[magnet]

You don’t think our idiot in chief was more than willing to shut our government down for months, cross his arms and pout?

Sure, Trump is free to voluntarily crater his political power any time he wants. Why should Democrats care?

The deal is the Democrats gained the house, but they don’t control the government. The Republicans will still get wins. This is mostly status quo, and looking back and what we’ve endured under this presidency, that’s fine

Of course Republicans will get wins. But if they win something, Democrats need to win something in exchange. It’s not zero sum.

Republicans won $1 billion, and in exchange Democrats won what exactly?

[Nesrie]

We are suffering the results of 60m racists voting for Republicans. Those results are losses .

Well that loss happened in the past. This is not a loss. This is what we can do that is reasonable and keep the government open.

No matter what happens, we all know Trump will claim he won, and his people will eat it up. Ignore that. He’s not getting what he wants.

[ArmandoPenblade]

This is not a loss.

We’re blowing $1b on a racist wall-portion and accepting that ICE is gonna run more than 40,000 beds for their hate crime operation on the border. That’s definitionally a loss in my book.

[magnet]

I do not care if Trump says he got what he wants. I do not care if he really gets what he wants.

I only care if Democrats get what they want. If that means that Trump also gets what he wants, that’s fine. Actually, that’s great. Politics is supposed to be about both sides getting what they want. Not both sides denying what the other side wants.

[Scuzz]

So the only real Dem win here was if the negotiations ended with trump’s resignation?

[Enidigm]

If Pelosi did shut down the government again, people would see it as a minority party trying to force their agendas on the majority party (even if in population these categories are reversed) and it would be hard not to agree. But Pelosi / McConnell are both old and don’t want to rock the boat that much. Maybe you might think it’s time to overturn the applecart over border security; maybe you don’t.