US Government Shutdown Watch: 2018 Edition. More Bricks in the Wall?

Why negotiate at all? The DACA folks are safe and when Trump gets booted out they will get citizenship anyway.

If anything Pelosi should be reducing the existing funding for the border each week the shutdown continues and publicly letting Trump know its non negotiable. The longer the shutdown carries on the less money he gets.

Its clearly the only language he understands.

He has nothing to offer. Zero. So that’s what he gets in return.

It’s true that the DACA folks are safe. But DACA is a band-aid, the equivalent of the “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy for gays in the military. Immigrants deserve a better solution, involving permanent legislation.

And what makes you think Congress will give them citizenship in the near future? Democrats already tried and failed multiple times. Democrats are more likely to succeed when they have something to offer Republicans in exchange, and right now they do.

Funding the government should not be an optional activity. This is nothing more than a terrorist hostage scenario.

It is, and it is backfiring spectacularly for Republicans. Now that the GOP is in trouble, should Democrats kindly let them off the hook, or get something in exchange?

Neither. Fund the government, full stop.

That’s equivalent to kindly letting the GOP off the hook for their stupidity, and getting nothing in return.

They are getting something in return. Proof that you can’t hold the government hostage. That’s pretty significant. Not to mention, his base would be furious because “he caved”. Would it be great to stick it to them, and force passage of HR-1? Absolutely. But that also means giving $5B for a dumbass wall. Not to mention that would never fly anyway.

No, that’s worthless. For one thing, it doesn’t “prove” anything except that it didn’t work in this particular case. There is nothing to prevent someone from trying again in the future.

Furthermore, the shutdown is a self-inflicted wound by Republicans. The longer it goes on, the more they hurt. Even the base is starting to lose support.

We can kindly end their suffering for free and feel good about ourselves for being principled superheroes, or we can use this opportunity to actually advance the progressive agenda. I prefer that Democrats focus on advancing the progressive agenda.

Democrats don’t need anything from Republicans. Just let them die off. Donald trump is the last Republican President of their lifetime and they know it. They just want to cause as much damage on their way out as they can. Fuck em.

Dogma is strict adherence to ideology often absent any evidence. There’s nothing idealogical about good governance (theoretically anyway).

People have been predicting a permanent Democratic majority for decades. Let’s just say that I’m … skeptical.

I’ll take concrete progress today over dreams of a better future, thank you very much.

“Government should be funded at all times” is a statement of principle.

People have also been predicting republicans will start to pivot to the center for decades. I am equally skeptical :) Besides the numbers dont lie. Republicans are a shrinking minority and that trend is accelerating. Like I say, let them die. Give them nothing.

Well, I care about what Democrats get. And I prefer that Democrats get something, not nothing. If this means giving Republicans something meaningless in exchange, then that’s fine with me.

Politics isn’t just a sport. I’d rather see actual progress than see Republican tears. I’d rather permanently improve the lives of immigrants than teach Trump a lesson. I’d rather do this today than in a hypothetical future. YMMV.

But it wont. Republicans hate immigrants. All of us. They have made that very clear. After decades of them kicking us we have got the message. YMMV is fair. I live in an affluent community in the Bay Area all of my immediate neighbors are immigrants as well, hostile towards Republicans would be something of an understatement :)

No Republican is ever going to do the right thing for Dreamers or immigrants. Why would they? Thats just another few hundred thousand votes against them every election they have to suppress or gerrymander away. Like I say we have the numbers. . No its not a sport, but when a political party decides to attack democracy as the Republican party has then you have a choice. Appeasement or confrontation, appeasement hasn’t worked (surprise it never does with fascists) I am mildly annoyed Pelosi even speaks to them, her job is to oppose them. Not deal with them.

They will if they get something they want in return. Normally, we have little to offer that they want. This time is different. We can offer Trump a meaningless wall, and we can offer Republicans a way out of the political trap they walked into.

Then just start to negotiate in Trump fashion. Take something away from him first then negotiate it back if he concedes. Reduce by say half the current funding for border security and agree to restore it if the dreamers are given immediate amnesty. Thats more than fair. Trump gets the same funding offered to him a few weeks ago and in December in exchange. No wall funding or increase of any kind obviously.

He has already shown thats how he believes deals work, if Pelosi does that to him then I would be fine with that.

@rowe33

Good point. Negotiating with a proven deal breaker and liar is also a fools errand.

Trump can’t be trusted to honor ANY deal. That’s pretty obvious. Fuck him and the trap the GOP willingly stuck their nuts in. Let them rot.

The purpose of negotiation is to obtain an outcome, not to teach a lesson.

Pelosi should negotiate in whatever means will get her legislation for a pathway to citizenship. Obviously, she is not going to accept Trump’s offer to give her back what she already had. She’s already said this. She needs more than that, something that she didn’t already have.

But likewise, there is no point to copying Trump’s tactics merely to prove a point. This isn’t about scoring points. It’s about getting results.

If Democrats begin to value grandstanding and Republican tears more than actual legislative results, then they will honestly be no better than Republicans.

So if the best way to get results is to make Trump look bad, then make Trump look bad. But if the best way to get results is to stroke Trump’s ego, then stroke Trump’s ego.

Well, of course. The goal is signed legislation that can be enforced by the courts, not merely a promise from Trump.

Uh oh, Gabbard supporters!

It’s Politico. You need to be careful assuming their headlines match their articles. There are no quotes in the article that say she blames Democrats. They’re broader and largely accurate.

That doesn’t mean they’re good politics. I think Pelosi is handling this very well. But that article is clickbait shitstirring.