Venezuela


#221

Yeah, and it never will unless it’s robots doing it. It just doesn’t work for human beings.


#222

But, um, neither does capitalism, not for human beings either. Not in its pure form. No “pure” form of ideology works. You have to blend stuff to get the good bits from each. Social democracy, regulated capitalism, all that sort of stuff does work. What doesn’t work is full-on robber baron laissez faire capitalism or draconian socialism.


#223

True, but pure capitalism chugs along at least. Human beings operate in that space fairly well at least for a little while. I mean we made it out of the Gilded Age, ironically with the help of the threat of socialism by many accounts.


#224

The most laissez-faire capitalist countries/territories? Singapore, Switzerland, Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan. Hellholes all.


#225

At this point, it becomes kind of hard to really define what is meant by a “socialist” or “capitalist” country.

Every country in Europe is essentially capitalist. But similarly, many, like Switzerland, have policies which the right wing in the US would castigate as socialist.

As an example, Switzerland has a universal healthcare system with no private insurance at all. As does Singapore. As does South Korea. As does Hong Kong. As does Taiwan.


#226

Also strict gun control.

I think Malathor just owned himself.


#227

I would agree that all of those places are quite capitalistic.

It’s just that those systems work because they are pragmatic. They allow their economies to function freely, while simultaneously providing a social safety net for their populations, because doing so is beneficial.


#228

Huh? Switzerland certainly does have private insurance albeit everyone is required to purchase basic coverage from someone. Sorta like Obamacare.


#229

Like Obamacare…?? Truly a hellhole!


#230

Sorry, my mistake, I confused their system with another European system.

But the fact remains, they have a system of providing universal healthcare for their population which would be decried as “socialist” by the modern GOP (although likely not by the GOP of days time by).

And the same goes for all of the other countries you listed.

The reality is, a pragmatic eye is forced to recognize that healthcare is not something which works particularly well without any further intervention.


#231

None of those are laissez faire. None. They all have more social safety nets than we do.


#232

I mean… the Romans had stamps for bread so that people didn’t sell sawdust to people.


#233

Don’t you mean grated “Parmesan cheese” like we do in the US?


#234

Not even close. Look who is at the bottom. Singapore I know is even lower than that. Willing to bet HK and Taiwan are far lower than us too.


#235

What exactly is your argument here now? Given that I think everyone here agrees that the authoritarian fiasco of Venezuela sucks and is a failure.

It’s it just some kind of desire to categorize countries as “capitalist” or “socialist”? To try and push it into some kind of tribalistic nonsense?

It doesn’t work like that. Essentially every developed country is based upon a capitalist system.

What is more meaningful is to look at actual policy plans. And from that perspective, it becomes obvious that you totally CAN have things like universal healthcare, without devolving into some kind of Venezuelan pit of despair.

Again, every country you are listing as a great example of capitalistic triumph… has a universal healthcare system.


#236

Some capitalist countries are more capitalistic and more laissez-faire and some less so, that is obvious. I know you are trying to change the subject into a debate on health care, but that one factor among many. Far more important would be broader measures like overall government spending as a % of GDP and the overall regulatory burden. The bottom line is that the freest economies have over the long run (the last 50 years at least) performed the best. FWIW on healthcare I support a forced savings plan a la Singapore, but I am not an expert on the subject and have no strong opinion other than noting my premiums have more than doubled since Obamacare.


#237

Universal Healthcare is merely a policy topic which is seized upon by your party was an indication of “socialism”, but as you yourself demonstrate, isn’t really that. Policy should be driven by effectiveness, not whether it fits into some ideological bin.

Also, regarding Singapore, I would point out that their system is actually authoritarian to a frightening degree.

While true that they have what is often seen as a high degree of economic freedom, they have a risky strict government which actually oppresses it’s people… It’s just that the government seems to be fairly competent.

It’s actually kind of weird and messed up. I think if I had to live in an authoritarian country, I’d pick Singapore… But I’d general prefer most other Western countries, or a place like Japan, to Singapore.


#238

What is the metric you are using for performance?


#239

I have to say, I appreciate the fact that @Malathor sticks around to discuss his POV. Unlike the link-and-run crap that Klaatu likes to pull.


#240

I have issues with this, but here is one attempt:

http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking