Venezuela


#281

Well the socialist part was a while ago when they nationalized damned near everything.

But this is where that generally ends up, historically. The Soviets didn’t give a crap about those things either. It doesn’t really matter what path you take to authoritarianism, once you’re there, you’re there.


#282

According to my internal Labour forums this is a Zionist CIA coup, and they* are all punching the air and declaring solidarity with the Maduro regime.

*Our hard left contingent. The centrists are facepalming.


#283

Then they’re stupid. Or maybe I am for thinking “the left” is rational, I don’t know, but as @ShivaX stated it doesn’t matter what path is taken on the road to authoritarianism. Are they fans of Erdoğan too? They’re both the same.


#284

They run the party. They are the UK opposition. We lost in 2015. They won. Who do you think the lexiters have lined up to replace the EU as a trade partner once their glorious socialist Brexit crushes the EU neoliberal capitalist regime?

Here’s what our Chairman For Life was doing last night.


#285

Ugh. I really hope we don’t go down that same path. Is the same true for the rest of Europe, or is this contained to the UK/England?


#286

It’s just the British hard left doing what they have always done. They love the Bolivarians. Ken sums it up perfectly.

That’s why Venezuela is where it is at you see, the government didn’t murder enough people. It’s obvious.

I look forward to the shitstorm when Ken is welcomed back with open arms and put on the front bench but that’s off topic for this thread.

I don’t think this is an issue across Europe due to lack of hard left power. Labour are experiencing a glitch due to the perfect storm of populism, fake news, the idiocracy and the Tories being even more utter bastards than they usually are. Even at her lowest point in May’s Brexit chaos a few weeks ago, Corbyn was polling 10% below her. Its a failed experiment much like the Bolivarian Republic.


#287

It always feels odd discussing ‘socialism’ and ‘communism’ with Americans

In the USA, the word ‘commie’ is an insult, but there aren’t really any commies around. Its almost a joke insult.

In Europe, we have the real things. Communist parties gain serious votes. And in Corbyn, the UK has its own hard-left tribe with almost cult-like followers.


#288

It’s always been a joke insult.

Really stupid people are just really stupid.


#289

And right now, the main opposition party in the UK has senior figures with pro-Communist Party, pro-Soviet Union backgrounds.

I really wish I was joking.


#290

And not just those from pro-Soviet cadres. The Marxist-Leninists faction are home to the Stalinist and Juche supporters. Our top advisor is openly a DPRK apologist and declared solidarity with the Kims.

It was Murray, Milne and the Marxist-Leninists who split from the Communist Party of Great Britain when it condemed the Soviet invasion of Czechslovakia, forming the CPB-ML and giving rise to the term “tankies”.

CPB-ML and RCPB-ML went on to ally with the UK far right during Brexit, as they are anti-EU and anti-immigrant and are part of the roots of Lexit.

The CPB-ML and another split faction, CPGB-ML are at the forefront of the hard left alliance with the Bolivarians, and its also with CPGB-ML and CPB (successor to the CPGB) where the oldest and longest alliances with Labour’s hard left lie. It’s always been a in-joke in Labour that Corbyn and Mcdonnell have attended more CPGB-ML and SWP (yes, another faction, and are really bad guys) meetings than Labour meetings.

Disclaimer : I might have got the CPB, CPGB, RCPB-ML, CPB-ML, CPGB-ML, NCPB, RCG, RCP, SP, SWP, WRP, AWL and SA mixed up during that. Put 2 hard left in a room for more than 10 mins and they will split into 3 parties. The history of the UK hard left is interesting, but confusing.


#291

It’s further complicated by a lot (not all, as we are seeing) of Communist Parties in Europe not being Stalinist or pro-Soviet Union at all and really being more like hardcore socialists.

And socialist parties being not really socialist in US terms.


#292

If the Americans want context, AOC and Bernie are what left leaning centrists?

Edging towards centre left perhaps. I don’t see even much soft left stuff from AOC. She’s in a really good place anyway. Best hope for the US


#293

What did Maduro lose? He’s a bad man, but I can’t quite figure out how a self-declared ‘President’ is something we ought to be cheering for.


#294

Let’s hope Trump stays out of it. Nothing would cement LATAM and support elsewhere on the globe (other than the usual suspects) for the Bolivarians quicker than Trump openly engaged against them.


#295

Ah yes, the SWP (Socialist Workers Party)

The political party whose founders believed that the Soviet Union was too capitalist


#296

Maduro started a second term on Jan. 10 following a widely-boycotted election last year that many foreign governments described as a sham. Venezuela’s constitution says if the presidency is determined to be vacant, new elections should be called in 30 days and that the head of congress should assume the presidency in the meantime.

However, the pro-government Supreme Court has ruled that all actions taken by congress are null and void and Maduro’s government has previously accused Guaido of staging a coup and threatened him with jail.

Basically the US is saying that his presidency isn’t legitimate and the Venezuelan Constitution agrees.

Or you can listen to their Supreme Court that says Venezuela is a dictatorship and there is no legislative branch.

I don’t think our position is very extreme.


#297

That ship has sailed. He was the very first person to offer official recognition of the new guy with a microphone.


#298

Why is the US saying anything at all? The answer has nothing to do with the quality of Venezuelan elections. And I’m pretty sure that the Venezuelan Constitution doesn’t call for appointing the first guy who volunteers.


#299

The only thing our US readers need to know about the SWP is they are a rape cult. A genuine rape cult with a real rape culture.


#300

Because recognizing government is something governments do?

Also the government we don’t recognize tried to kick out our ambassadors.