Victoria 3

Right now there isn’t much more to do with diplomacy. And actually, probably the biggest thing they need to change with diplomacy, even more than the additional interaction options I want, is to tie it into the political system. It’s already weird that relations aren’t affected at all by how similar or not two nations politics are. The fact that the UK doesn’t care(and can’t do anything about it anyway) if its dominions go communist is weird. And on the flip side, it’s weird that parties and IGs don’t care about diplomacy/international relations one way or the other. Isolationist IGs should push for you to cut alliances and trade agreements, not just push for a switch to an Isolationist trade law. Free traders the opposite. Landowners may want you to cut ties with nations that have liberalized too much. There are lots of things you can do there!

Also, more shipping Lenin to Russia in armored trains, please.

EDIT: So many places to go with this! This could actually help justify out of the way colonization or colonial wars as your populace pushes you to not fall behind a rival in the prestige race.

I understand this desire to have internal politics transfer into external ones. However, I think devs are afraid that game would feel too auto-pilot-ish. With the economics, it’s quite easy to be reactive and for now it’s enough to build economic dominance. If you can get away with building your diplomacy on desires of your people then you might feel like a middle manager just clicking stuff you’re told to click. Of course it’s all a speculation, plenty of ways they can do that.

Definitely needs to be done in a way where it just adds more dynamic ways you’re interacting with your IGs rather than letting them pilot the ship. It should all feel like your making tradeoffs and balancing the varying concerns in your country. So if you pursue some of the Industrialists diplomatic policy you’ll need to find a way to throw the Landowners a bone internally to keep them happy. Or, in return for your support in these liberalization measures, Armed Forces, we’ll launch that war to retake Azerbaijan you’re desperate for.

One thing I’ve been wondering about is the system for passing laws. It’s basically a seige model, where passage of the law can either go quickly or slowly. One thing I don’t like is the consequences of failing seem to be pretty low - stop trying to pass the law, try to pass another reform and take a swing at it again in a few years.

I’ve been thinking for a while that it would be more engaging if the model for passing a new law was more like a war. So you basically create an internal “diplomatic incident” and try to sway interest groups to staying on the sidelines or not. The interest group leaders are basically generals that fight a few “battles” with attached events and dice rolls modifiers. If you can drive the opposition forces into retreat you can pass the law.

It would also be interesting if there were serious consequences for failing to pass the law. Maybe some persuadable pops switch support to the conservative groups, entrenching their power for a generation. Groups who did support the failed reform become radicals, etc.

I agree. And some form of being able to barter or make compromises to sway those interest groups as part of that. The current system is very passive once you’ve started trying to pass it and there is no real feel of a push and pull or politicking to get stuff passed. It’s just hope the dice rolls go your way.

Exactly. I was thinking they already have kind of a framework for bargaining in the diplomatic incident “sway” mechanic. So you kind of attach extra goals to the legislation to get groups where you want them. The main interest group opposed to the change would also be trying to sway the other groups and getting their own “wargoals” locked in.

I’m disappointed their goals with diplomacy aren’t more ambitious in the near-term, but overall I think this is a good indication that they understand where the game needs to improve within the scope of the initial vision. Note that all the stuff listed there is for base game patches. Still no indication on what plans they have for DLC.

Looks pretty solid to me, particularly for base-game patches. That seems like quite a bit on the plate, I’m curious what kind of timeframe they’re looking at.

I’m still concerned they aren’t addressing the fundamental problem of the game, which is that main activity of the player is to construct buildings. While, which buildings to build and where to build them are pretty interesting questions, it gets old fairly quickly. The other activities like say passing laws, are very much in the hope and pray for good die rolls category.

I’m with you I feel very disconnected from the Pop, not better and possibly worse than Victoria 2.

I’d be curious what you think they could do to change that? I agree with you, but what I see is them trying to flesh out other areas and interactions in the game, which would make those a bigger portion of what you’re doing. More interesting diplomacy and internal politics should especially be able to do that.

I installed One Proud Bavarian’s tweak mod and keep meaning to actually start a game with it. I know part of what he did was make things that are already in the game but basically never fire like Springtime of the Peoples actually happen with regularity, which should at least add some friction that isn’t there right now.

His roleplaying game videos have been interesting too as he goes into each game with certain self-imposed restrictions and goals.

I think we are in violent agreement! Better Internal politics, and more diplomatic options are really needed to add variety. In the case of internal politics, it is generally clear to me that want more liberal policies. So I rearrange the cabinet to get my best shot and then series of choices, in the form of you can increase your chances to pass the law, with some malus to your economy or faction relationship.

For the most part I find those choices nowhere near as interesting as those in Old World. So the new additions look promising.

I now see I didn’t read chart carefully enough. I thought the only thing new in was Diplomacy " * “Allowing peace deals to be negotiated during a Diplomatic Play instead of only having the option to give in” I now see they are planning to updating many things,in Diplomacy all of which seem like good ideas.

So I take it back they do appear to be on the right pathway. Hopefully, I’ll be patient enough to wait until they got most of it done, before jumping back hardcore into the game.

And by that I think you mean the ability to build buildings in other countries.

You bet. Ever since I constructed my first building ( a granary I bet) in Hamurabi on the Apple II circa 1980 I have always wanted to make buildings in other countries, just like the Chinese Belt and Road projects. I am very thankful for the PDX team will soon make my dream a reality /s

Don’t know how serious you are with this /s, the important part of diplomacy will definitely be some sort of foreign investment. At the moment you’re in a weird situation when vassals are a burden as don’t have the technology or a desire to develop stuff you need. I gather we’ll have right to invest as an additional tier of dependent relations.

Not at all. Colonies and puppets are sort of special case, I don’t really consider them a foreign country
What I really want to see in diplomacy is better methods of entering into a better trade relation, and also alliance that actually work It’s been my experience that is really hard to get smaller countries into a into your trade union. I’ve also found that countries seldom honor alliances. As a result, I spend a lot of time improving relationship with various countries and I don’t see much tangible benefits from doing so.

Not the changes to law enactment we were really hoping for, but hopefully these changes help somewhat. Same with revolutions.

Happy with interest groups in government pushing to get certain laws passed.

“three seiges in a trenchcoat” sounds about right. It probably does help, but I still hope they eventually go to a more interesting model that features more horse trading.

New Laws! The new Land Reform group is basically their take on what One Proud Bavarian already added in his mod(at this point just hire him and make him a junior designer or something on Vicky 3!) but the new laws added elsewhere are a neat surprise. Between Single Party State and State Atheism I think the USSR is all set now. Speaking of, Single Party State looks like an incredibly powerful law that looks to be counterbalanced only by the fact that it will piss off any IG left out of the government. Love that it still has sham elections to elect the only party option!

I waited for the patch to get back to the game, and see if I got it. Which I kind of did. Decided to play to the end just the one time, wouldn’t recommend it because you’re going to give up trying to balance production a fair bit before, it’s too much. Even flooding construction becomes a chose as you then have to create unemployed for infrastructure you need to carry the oil.
I guess I jumped over Britain in France at the end as they got into a war that will never end now. Shame. Guess not a lot of people will see this screen, at least not for a few years so enjoy my almost united south america.

What do you mean about creating unemployed for oil infrastructure? I have played to the late game yet.