I am not sure that I agree with that. Many turn-based strategy games and resource management games such as city builders or transport tycoons have you juggling multiple variables and responding to changing conditions while attempting to achieve some specific goals. That may not be as mathematical as solving differential equations, but it certainly fits the description of problem solving. And if you are going to give a positive example of mathematics like conditions in a game, then why sports of all genres?
Where was that thread where I made fun of Psychological studies?
Yeah, studies like this are always done to push an agenda. Someone at the “American Institute for Family and Media” has a vendetta against games, so they do studies trying to prove games are bad.
That isn’t how science should work. Science is when you try to explain something that is happening without caring one way or the other of the how/why.
I would like to see the study that says 99% of kids play video games because they are fun. or the 98% of students prefer using the internet over the library. People that run these “studies” are just trying to get money for their work. Most likely their organization is founded/funded by some right-wing political group. Follow the money folks.
I am currently reading the article… The problem with survey studies like this are that people aren’t objective at all when taking surveys. Questions can be worded to be leading. For instance, the addicition question of “I spend more and more money to get the same satisfaction out of games” is rather leading. Of course you do… that is how it works. You buy new games when the come out. When you say something vague like that, a lot of people are probably going to answer “Yes, that sounds like me” It is similar to how cold reading works. People tend to personalize questions, fudging up what their true answer to the question would be.
Edit: Actually after reading the study, it seems like it isn’t as bad as I had thought. The researcher seems to see both sides of the coins and isn’t blaming video games for the addiction, just that kids are easily addicted to things. But, it doesn’t change the fact that his study seems a bit on the poor side, as some of the rebuttals later in the article get into.
I think the problem lies less with the study and more with the headline spinning media and the public that doesn’t bother reading anything beneath the headline.
Not that I disagree with your ideas, but live blogging the reading of an article? Posting before reading is a no-no around here, sir.
SUBSTANCE ABUSE:
One or more of the following:
FAILURE TO FULFILL MAJOR OBLIGATIONS
USE WHEN PHYSICALLY HAZARDOUS
RECURRENT LEGAL PROBLEMS
RECURRENT SOCIAL OR INTERPERSONAL PROBLEMS
SUBSTANCE DEPENDENCE (ADDICTION)
Three or more of the following:
TOLERANCE
WITHDRAWAL
LARGE AMOUNTS OVER A LONG PERIOD
UNSUCCESSFUL EFFORTS TO CUT DOWN
TIME SPENT IN OBTAINING THE SUBSTANCE REPLACES SOCIAL, OCCUPATIONAL OR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES
CONTINUED USE DESPITE ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES
Just replace the word substance with whatever it is you’re worried about being addicted to. I suspect that most of us here at QT3 are dependent/addicted to computer games. I know I am. I just don’t have a problem with that.
C.
It was the opposite for me, the investment for most games seemed repulsive to me - and I would eventually give up, regardless of how much I was anticipating the game.
First they gave me the demos and some warez just to give me a taste.
Next thing you know I was subscribing to WOW and spending thousands on hardware.
So why doesn’t anyone study vacation addiction? One day I was day tripping to the museum. Next thing I know I’m blowing my WHOLE RETIREMENT fund on cruises around the world. It was all in an attempt to get away from the day to day grind and avoid my problems.
These “addiction scientists” need to be separated from their grant money pronto.
Oh dear…
NEWS FLASH: Kids prefer to do something fun rather than something responsible, sometimes to the point of being irresponsible. ZOMG T3H ADDICTION!!1!
One of the funny things about that article is that it hits the panic button a lot harder than Gentile does. He calls them “pathological gamers,” which to my mind is a milder term than “addict.” “Addict” implies a loss of control, “pathological” simply indicates they do it way more than they ought to. He also says things like “For some kids, they play in such a way that it becomes out of balance. And they’re damaging other areas of their lives, and it isn’t just one area, it’s many areas,” and “It’s not that the games are bad. It’s not that the games are addictive. It’s that some kids use them in a way that is out of balance and harms various other areas of their lives.” Again, that’s a lot milder than saying, “Games == DRUGS!!1!” Furthermore, while the article doesn’t draw attention to this, less than 10% of kid gamers (8.5M out of 88M) meet his definition of pathological gamers.
I also can’t tell from the article if Gentile is saying pathological gaming is the cause or the symptom: i.e., do these kids have problems in school etc. because they play too many video games; or do they play too many video games because they have problems? As we all know, correlation does not imply causation.
I don’t doubt that there are plenty of kids (not to mention quite a few adults) who spend too much time playing games when they should be studying, doing their chores, sleeping, etc. But blaming games for that irresponsibility is like blaming your sofa for making you fat: “If it weren’t so comfy, I wouldn’t spend so much time sitting on it munching bon-bons!”
Actually “pathological” implies that it is a disease, and out of your control.
I used to (and still) put off chores…just to put off chores.
I used video games to put off chores all damn day today…it was fucking great!
Sometimes I even use chores to put off other chores. Mabye I am simultaniously addicted to chores and video games. Is ther ea program for that? VG&CA?
I find that interspersing small amounts of video gaming during a long task/chore improves the quality of my work. The best paper I ever wrote in college involved stopping to play a game after every paragraph.
I’m putting off homework RIGHT NOW!!!
Symptoms included spending increasing amounts of time and money on video games to feel the same level of excitement;
I blame Steam weekend deals and sales.
I get addicted to games in short burst. My kitchen slowly went to hell the weeks I played Fallout 3 but I’m not addicted over all. I don’t think.
The idea that all gamers are addicted to games is as silly as the suggestion that none of them are. There are loonies on both sides of this discussion.
Apparently the poll used to generate the statistics for this report was ‘opt in’ as opposed to ‘random sample’. The difference is huge and basically it means the results published by this report are just about meaningless.
While the parallel with hard drugs is pretty silly, I think there is a serious case to be made for certain forms of computer gaming to be regarded as an addiction. One description of addiction is that it is the use of a compulsive behaviour to block out memories or feelings that are too painful for the person to bear. And I have to say, a lot of my computer-game playing has been done basically in that way. I would spend 8 hours or more in a day playing some game, and at the end of it I would ask myself, did I have fun any of that time? And the answer would be no.
Whether “addiction” is the right terminology or not, I would argue that in my case and probably in many cases, playing games in that kind of way is not healthy. And it would be useful to have a sense of the distinction between healthy gaming and unhealthy gaming, and some kind of response or path out of unhealthy gaming which amounted to more than “give it up to the real addicts, kid” or “so stop playing games then!”.
I guess the trouble is that for the most part the people advocating the idea that there is such a thing as “unhealthy gaming” have never been gamers themselves and so they… interpret things on the basis of a kind of fundamental ignorance of what gaming is like and what it is about, and they also… often tend to have a sort of puritanical hostility to the whole idea which makes their recommendations over-broad and over-the-top. I guess it’s the difference between arguing that there’s a difference between healthy and unhealthy gaming and arguing that gaming is in itself essentially unhealthy.
TOLERANCE
WITHDRAWAL
LARGE AMOUNTS OVER A LONG PERIOD
UNSUCCESSFUL EFFORTS TO CUT DOWN
TIME SPENT IN OBTAINING THE SUBSTANCE REPLACES SOCIAL, OCCUPATIONAL OR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES
Next thing you know, people are gonna claim I’m addicted to porn.
daydreaming starting gambits for matches
browsing qt3 at “work”.
My therapist said a good metric on determining whether a behaviour is good or bad is thinking about whether it affects your behaviour. For example, I complained once I was very shy and self-conscious. If I was so embarrased at a deli that I would avoid going there again and went out of my way to go to another, that is a problem. I know it’s obvious to a lot of people, but it helped me get some perspective.