Tragic.
That’s all there really is to say. But good of her to go out of her way to try and reduce the inevitable harassment that is headed Quinn’s way. That’s no easy thing, when one is grieving.
unsurprisingly, it didn’t work - Zoe’s been driven off twitter.
People have been awful on both sides. Saw some horrible stuff directed at his sister.
Twitter was a mistake.
I mean we’ve all seen how forums can turn toxic. Imagine everyone on earth talking to each other at the same time; what could go wrong?
I was reading an interview of the director of the new film Ladyworld and how she considered herself a post feminist because feminism today was, to her, all about victimhood and nihilistic self policing. Part of my issue with metoo - well really the only issue - was that public accusations and then the “somebody do something about this” stare rather than trying to gain the political/social/economic power to do “this” themselves worried me about how exactly this would all play out, so indirect and passive-aggressive. There’s effectively no framework today for cautious reflection and judgement.
I don’t think it played out like anyone really expected here. There’s a weird thing going on in the metoo undercurrents where effectively women are saying that they’re too “X” to go through the official channels, or that no one listens to “X” or what have you. I wish we had a kind of feminism today that could address women’s and men’s differences in a constructive way, and we had a male-first counter movement that wasn’t so willingly blind and deaf, so eager to reflexively attack women and relishing in their jackassery.
I think you might be misunderstanding the reason MeToo exists. No one wanted this movement; it was simply needed.
In any case, the only responsible person for a suicide is the one that committed it. His sister might’ve known him best, and her response was not destroy some campaign against the people involve with the accusation nor to target MeToo. She’s still grieving, so who knows in time if that will change, but for now, she doesn’t want her brother used as a weapon.
You could pretty much say the same thing about Communism.
Just for the record, i totally support MeToo and think the reports of it going too far are wildly exaggerated (although there was an article i can’t find now, either on Financial Times or Guardian, that showed men were increasingly avoiding women in the workplace post MeToo). But fundamental to the idea of MeToo isn’t that a reports of abuse are essentially true unless disproven (at least to me) but that “somebody, somewhere, whoever they are” is going to do something about “X”. And it’s that last part where i think there is reason for pause.
You’re comparing MeToo to Communism. Okay, well… there’s that.
Imagine me saying it with an implied ! and ;), except that a smiley was a bit too comedic and unserious for the topic.
MeToo is not about “somebody needs to do something about X”, but about:
a) Making people understand the magnitude of the problem,
b) Encouraging people to report predatory behavior when they see it (rather than turning a blind eye), and
c) Giving the victims the resources to have access to healing.
As for people not listening - that’s simply how it is. In fact, prior to MeToo, can you name even one high-profile person whose sexually predatory behavior had any consequences for them?
As for men being too afraid to go near women at work or to shake a woman’s hand, I guess that just goes to show how dysfunctional society is (and says a lot more about those men, than about the MeToo movement). Because men are not stupid - we are well aware where the line goes (as detailed in a recent study):
Fact is - it’s really not that hard: Don’t treat your workplace/professional field as a place to pick up people and don’t be a jerk to your colleagues. Which really should go without saying - regardless of gender - but apparently is really hard for some people to accept.
Having said that, this is a discussion for another thread, I guess.
I mean i know it’s annoying and on the wrong side of the line here, but i agree with everything you wrote except the first line. Guys know most of the time what they’re doing - although you have to admit a certain possibility that a certain kind of men are abusing their situations without really reflecting on what they’re doing (which doesn’t excuse it of course) - but much (not all or most) of MeToo literally is “here’s is this problem, now do something about it”.
In this particular case her accusation was pretty much just tossed out there and what happens next isn’t really her concern, only that “somebody” is going to take that information and act on it. The reason Kavanaugh was confirmed was because you had a MeToo moment appealing to people that didn’t care at all about whether the accusations were true, only if they were actionable according to the law, and shows the limits of what MeToo can do if the people who have the “need to do something about X” power don’t care.
Hey, folks. I think this is an extremely relevant and meaningful topic, but this also may not be the best place to be discussing suicide generally. Does it make sense to take it elsewhere and put it in a thread with a title that indicates the subject matter?
So… exactly how should Quinn have communicated what she had to say in order for it to be acceptable (recall that several of the current accusations were first reported anonymously - no one believed them). How should Blasey Ford have communicated in order to make people care (recall that she communicated privately with her Senators, months before it became public)? I think in both cases, you’ll find that the answer is there is nothing the victims in this case could do that would not see the line of argumentation you’re making here - other than to shut up about it.
Why would you have expected Quinn in particular to suggest consequences for her abuser? 1) she does not have that power, nor would it make sense for her to be judge or jury and 2) that’s not the purpose of speaking up about abuse.
If you’ve followed any of the recent accusations, you’ve no doubt noticed how of the follow-up posts have been “Yeah, this is well known in X circles” comments. As already mentioned, the main benefit of going public - loudly - is to raise awareness; i.e., stop further abuse. It’s to make sure that potential future victims do not have to be a part of the “in-group” to be warned away from the abuser - which is the consequence when such accusations are kept secret. It means that enablers (and the community in general) cannot pretend that it is ignorant about the abusive behavior.
In Quinn’s specific case, she was speaking up in solidarity with (and support of) Nathalie Lawhead’s accusations. That’s pretty much it. This #MeToo moment was not about Zoe Quinn, until people latched on to her because she makes a convenient target. And if you think she had or has anything to gain by posting her story, you vastly under-estimate the consequences that these accusations bring down on the head of those who dare to speak up.
Why must either person ‘go public’? Do the police no longer investigate this kind of thing? Is it purely up to Twitter-detectives to solve these cases?
I don’t think mob justice is the way forward.
Not so much.
Thanks for giving the textbook example of why #MeToo has resonated so powerfully. Think for a moment about what you’re actually saying with those sentences.
Oh, I think we all know it is.
That I believe the police are best equipped to handle such things?
I don’t follow any of this stuff, but rather than being vague: why do you think that comment was a textbook example of why #MeToo has resonated so powerfully?
This should not lead to this:
Because if you knew anything at all, you’d know the current structure doesn’t work. And let me point out that sexual harassment and sexual violence in the workplace is not always a police matter anyway. I mean you do realize that MeToo isn’t just rape right?
It’s also internet bullying.
More vagueness. Are people actually reporting these crimes to the police? Or just on twitter?
I assume you’re trying to say that the US police are unwilling to act in such matters?
All sexual harassment is a crime and can be reported to the police. (In the UK)
Has the meetoo movement been successful in getting anyone before a court? Has it managed to get move people sent to jail than the current, ‘useless’ police force?
So far it appears to have made someone commit suicide, so I guess that’s one up to the MeToo.movement. Justice definitely served.