Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2

The Bay12 cohort is pretty strongly in favor of a fast battleship, too. France recently developed +1 14" guns, so they won’t be giving up quite as much punch, either.

The right design there is probably heavy deck armor, maximum torpedo protection, and (relatively) light belt armor. Plunging fire, dive bombers, and torpedoes are the battleship killers of the future.

I’m glad! I’m giving some consideration to a forum-vs-forum game of Strategic Command: WWI as an encore, but there are problems both of time (at the fastest, it would be about a two-year investment) and mechanism (how best to run it?) with that.

I’ve also thought about an AGEOD Civil War 2 forum-vs-forum game, which has similar problems.

Yeah that’s what I had in mind. It’s hard to know whether to go with 14" or 16" (and hope to upgrade them later). I guess 14" allows more hits (due to faster reloading and more barrels), would wreck lighter combatants faster and not give up much penetration until you’ve researched +1 16" guns. I guess in the role of something that can punch hard, keep up with the carriers and potentially menace enemy carriers and their escorts in night raids it just makes sense. By the time you get +1 16" guns, that won’t be your best option for taking out a heavily-armoured BB.

Is there a chance to improve those fourteen inchers further? Extra range or penetration perhaps? In that case just skipping the larger guns in favour of aircraft and rapid fire advanced guns sounds like the forward thing to do.

Shell technology will improve our penetration and damage for a given caliber over time, and other technologies increase our accuracy. Range is fixed, and that’s where a 14" battleship would find itself most handicapped against a 16" battleship.

I just wanted to say thanks again for this thread @Fishbreath. I have finally taken the plunge into this game and am really enjoying it.

In my latest, as Germany, a 17 year naval arms limitation treaty was entered into in 1901, limiting ships to 12,000 tons and maximum of 8 inch guns. Battleships built before the middle of 1901 are now the worlds most precious naval commodity, with Dreadnoughts far away.

I’m assuming it makes sense to focus on torpedos in the interim, as my 8 inch gun ships are not going to be able to penetrate armor of the big ships at any range, and my Battleships are sad undergunned German starter ships (since Germany starts with only up to 11 inch guns researched. I have five 11 inch gun battleships and three 9 inch gun battleships thanks to the starter fleet. But they have a bunch of armor, so at least there is that.

I’m rolling with tons of destroyers and some super light cruisers the pick off enemy destroyers. I am about to tangle with the Royal Navy, so we will see how bad that strategy is.

That’s an interesting scenario. Yeah I think emphasising torpedoes and destroyers/light cruisers makes some sense since the existing heavy ships are terrible if they get hit. I think early battleships are pretty vulnerable to burning down, so maybe go heavy on HE ammo and rate of fire, you can probably sink them with new ships. Early battleships have a hard time penetrating each other anyway. So perhaps some kind of heavy cruiser makes sense.

The rush to build real capital ships once the treaty expires should be interesting. Don’t forget (like I did) that the treaty goes out the window once you go to war.

After a brief intermission, we return.

Item #1 on the priority list, according to the readership, is a fast battleship. I cancel Magenta (she hasn’t been building for that long) and redesign her for 30-knot speed and 14" guns. I cut half an inch from her belt armor to add half an inch to her deck armor, but in all other respects, she’s a copy of Marengo.

February 1933

Breguet brings us a better medium bomber, which I buy, even though we just bought a Morane-Saulnier type—this one has better range and speed with the same bomb load.

May 1933

The new, fast Magenta hits the ways, and I decide to throw in a new light cruiser, too: Surcouf, with 12 6" guns, 32-knot speed, a seaplane, and dual-purpose secondary and tertiary guns.

9,000 tons is pretty beefy compared to our oldest light cruisers, the three 24-knot Chateaurenaults still puttering around sleepy Asiatic ports.

July 1933

I’m trying to provoke Austria-Hungary into a war, but they’re resolutely opposed to the idea.

November 1933

Our big buy of Epee-class destroyers are all in service now. Given that Austria’s destroyers are better than ours, I go for a new class: the Arquebuse, which helps close the gap somewhat. 6 main guns (against our previous best of 4), without compromising on other capabilities, and with an extra two knots of speed over the Epees.

March 1934

As Marengo enters service, an opportunity presents itself to cheese off the Austro-Hungarians, exposing a spy of theirs discovered in French territory. It pushes us to the brink of war.

April 1934

Our fighters are looking a little long in the tooth, so I request some new prototypes.

June 1934

I have the option to negotiate an alliance or push tensions. I choose to push tensions; unfortunately, Germany goes up and Austria-Hungary doesn’t, putting us on the brink of war with two powers.

September 1934

No real news, except for this!

003-radar

I set it to high priority for now. Radar’s super-cool.

November 1934

Liore et Olivier gets the nod for the new fighter, out of three choices with almost nothing to separate them. (Liore et Olivier’s entry is just as fast, tough, maneuverable, and punchy as the other entries, but has an extra few miles of range.)

Tensions with Germany go down slightly.

January 1935

The war with Austria is so close I can taste it, but not quite there yet.

Plans and Intentions

There are fourteen ships in the yards right now:

  • Magenta, our 30-knot battleship. (Done in 14 months.)

  • Surcouf and Forbin, two new light cruisers. (Done in 3 months and 14 months.)

  • Commandant Teste, our seaplane carrier, in for a rebuild to bring her up to the 30-knot air group standard. (Done in 12 months.)

  • 10 new destroyers of the 2000-ton Arquebuse class, done in 4 months.

So, in four months, we’ll have money in hand for another capital ship, and again 10 months thereafter. Should we build battleships, carriers, or one of each? If battleship(s), 30-knot/14" guns or 27-knot/16" guns? (We could easily build a 30-knot, 16"-gun ship if we weren’t tonnage-limited, but alas, that is not the world we live in.)

To help guide your decision, a quick rundown of the European standings:

  • In dreadnought ships, we have 279,700 tons in service or under construction, putting us behind Britain (613,000) and Germany (533,200) but ahead of Austria-Hungary (237,600) and Italy (189,100). Britain is actually behind Germany if you only count ships in service, but is currently building six dreadnoughts.

  • In aircraft carriers, our 87,500 tons puts us behind Britain (165,000), but ahead of Italy (84,100), Germany (38,800), and Austria-Hungary (8,900). Joffre is still the champion on the ‘most planes on a single carrier’ leaderboard. Notably, we still haven’t developed dive bombers, and this technology chart suggests that it’s possible we won’t until 1938. Until then, we’ll just have to struggle along with torpedo bombers and licensed dive bombers.

Otherwise, the plan is to continue to badger Austria-Hungary, with an eye toward stealing Morocco from them. Anything else that ought to be on the docket?

This is perhaps the most fascinating RTW2 scenario of which I’ve heard, and I wish there were a way to guarantee it would happen that way.

How can you, a simple naval minister, try to bait another country into war? Shame on you!

If it happens again, I’ll send you the save.

I think I would use the first available slot for another 30 knot, 14" battleship and the second for a carrier. It’s hard to kick the habit of building battleships, but the aircraft will be getting better and maybe you’ll have a new divebomber by the time the carrier is ready.

What do we have in the way of land based air that might be helpful against Italy and Austria-Hungary? Assuming we are fighting closer to their coasts, if we do not have good land bases nearby, it may make sense to have some carriers for both offensive and defensive purposes. If we have ample land based air, I’d lean towards the 30 knot battleships, assuming our 14-inch guns can penetrate enemy armor.

For Italy, we have moderately large bases on Sardinia and Corsica. For Austria, we have small bases in Albania. Our medium bombers can reach the Italian and Austrian coasts from bases further afield, but I think the other types don’t have long enough legs.

In that case, I’d think we need at least one carrier. For the other ship, I’m agnostic between the second carrier and the 14-inch gun fast battleship.

I haven’t played enough of the late game to get a feel for it, but I’ve read that you have a lot less control of the air stations, so one plane on a carrier is more useful than one plane at a base. Doubly so if you want planes for providing consistent CAP for your fleet. Which of course makes sense.

That’s correct. Your control over land-based air is limited to ‘please provide CAP over this one division’.

We have two large carriers and three small ones already; the small ones are a bit long in the tooth, while the large ones are both still first-line ships.

The power comparison suggests that war with Germany might be undesirable.

What happened to the poor Brits?

I don’t have my gaming PC on hand to check, but I suspect they never had a ‘bring the fleet home’ moment like the Brits did historically, and it’s spread out among all the British possessions in the world.

This AAR and playing ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts all weekend again has inspired me to start me own game. cheers and thanks @Fishbreath !

I am playing China in 1910. This should be fun :)

Also I have been watching these. To help me get in the mood. Here is a french one for the thread!