http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0309.gorman.html
I can get on board with education requirements and requiring schools to accept anyone who applies. The only hard part will be making sure they don’t underfund 'em…
I think vouchers are a great idea. There are going to be a lot of kinks to work out, though, and it’s going to take time to get a system that works. But I strongly support the fundamental idea.
shouldn’t we just keep our money in the first place instead of filtering it through a bureaucracy ? All this voucher talk along with every other handout program gives the impression that it’s ‘free’ since the government pays for it. How about increasing the tax deduction for children to $7500 per dependant. Or maybe even a tax credit.
Because families that don’t pay that much in annual federal taxes wouldn’t be able to afford to send their kids to school. If you are already in a low tax bracket, a large deduction is pretty much worthless.
Yeah, even tax credits get into issues with non-filers.
The interesting thing about that article is the framing; when the idea is separated from fire-breathing hatred of government, it’s pretty cool once you’ve got some tweaks in. It’s the first article I’ve read about vouchers where I didn’t think I was being conned.
Imagine that… Teachers actually having to perform well for their pay…
Perhaps then I won’t get the health teacher that was adamant about the “fact” that DNA was a protein…
(didn’t the word acid mean anything to her?)
I had a science teacher who said that our hands don’t go through each other because of magnetism.
…
I’m speechless. Has it really gotten that bad? I’m praying this was at least an early elementary school teacher and perhaps not a high school teacher. Or perhaps if you had said it was an English teacher theorizing outside of her chosen discipline, but a science teacher? Damn…
That’s actually pretty close to the correct answer,; it’s because of negative charges repelling each other.
Gav
That’s actually pretty close to the correct answer,; it’s because of negative charges repelling each other.
Gav[/quote]
It actually leads to some interesting contemplation on the way we perceive the universe - the fact that, in terms of the physical atoms that make up our bodies, we never actually physically “touch” any other living thing. It’s all in the interaction of our fields. Not too far removed from naval gazing, I suppose, but I always found it an interesting idea.
I’m speechless. Has it really gotten that bad? I’m praying this was at least an early elementary school teacher and perhaps not a high school teacher. Or perhaps if you had said it was an English teacher theorizing outside of her chosen discipline, but a science teacher? Damn…[/quote]
7th Grade. Middle school.
For those that are saying “well, its sorta close, cuz you know…” have to realize that this guy was on the whole, rather clueless. He was so lazy once, he just set the Scantron machine up in the back of the classroom and had us scan our own tests.
That’s the major egregious example of lousy teaching. I went to a Jesuit high school, and can’t think of anyone there that didn’t know their stuff. There was the english teacher that could only explain margins in terms of “how many carriage returns on the typewriter from the top of the page”, but hey, that’s to be expected.
Strong force, weak force, power of the force, dark side of the force…what’s the difference. I’ve got to be in this class teaching a bunch of retards for 8 hours a day, so who really cares!! This was the attitude of many of the ‘soon to retire’ teachers I’ve encountered in private moments.
I was a teacher for a short stint. Taught high school CAD drafting and programming. You wouldn’t believe the amount of new teachers who were only a 1/2 step ahead of the students regarding basic knowledge and curriculum content. It’s really no wonder that so many kids end up dumber coming out of school than going in.
Since public education will never be dismantled, I guess I’d favor a voucher program, as long as schools weren’t ‘required’ to enroll students who were behavior problems. If certain discipline rules could be enforced, kicking your child out of a school if he/she didn’t comply would be an immediate godsend for public education There’s nothing more frustrating than being forced to enroll a child who will not follow basic rules of behavior and courtesy simply because you are a ‘public’ institution and are mandated to educate unconditionally.
Alright, but then what happens to the students with discipline problems? Where do they go?
I’m not going “your entire idea is stupid” here, (like usual), but I’m actually curious as to what your alternative is.
How about boot camp with math and literacy tutors?
Go Tranquility Bay!
?
I’m not going “your entire idea is stupid” here, (like usual), but I’m actually curious as to what your alternative is.
I don’t know if that’s an insult or a free pass, but here goes:
How about a nice millitary school in Jamaica…
Actually, most major school districts have a last chance bastion of hope for all evildoers. One school reserved for the special needs children that specializes in stricter rules and punnishment. If they can’t make it there, then the juvi hall usually gets them for one reason or another, usually by their own doing.
I swore I wouldn’t get into this one- it’s much easier to leave it to the experts… :wink:
However, I think you’ll find that the special needs kiddies end up in places with softer regimes. The problem with much of these kids is that their homelife is absolutely appalling- applying punitive measures upon them at school then tends to reinforce their worldview that abuse and intimidation are the way the world operates. This creates a bit of a vicious circle which eventually spirals down to prison and someone innocent being grievously hurt.
The hope is that more flexible regimes will allow the students to learn appropriate socialisation skills that will prevent them from being the hard core thug who will beat people up for the fun of it.
Of course, this philosophy goes against the grain of how people really want to treat errant teens. God knows I’ve visualised some of my students at a boot camp. I guess the idea is though that if you kick their arses when they’re young, they’ll just kick your arse when they’re older.
It would be nice to think that a boot camp would be able to get through to kids by gradually developing their sense of discipline and belonging. Somehow though, I don’t think the places are developed with compassion and redemption in mind.
Sorry for sounding like a bleeding heart here- normally I’m not.
Oh- and if vouchers were introduced, I’d expect that every private school would have to take every student who applied. It’d be nice to see some of the private schools mixing up their social stratas.
And another ‘Oh’ for those people who remember crappy teachers. Get over it- Jesus, as if you guys aren’t perfect. It amazes me how some people can grow up yet still carry juvenile grudges.
So basically, bmulligan, you’re dooming everyone that doesn’t respond well to increasing discipline to a life of crime and prison. “They talked out of turn, so send them to the school with the rest of the people that talk out of turn. Then they can all reinforce each other! Oh, and then when they all act the same way for a while, we’ll throw them into juvie. Then, when they get out of school, we’ll pick them up and throw them into jail.”
As Peter says, its a vicious circle.
Right, well, now I think your idea is stupid. I can’t tell whether or not your idea to send them to the Jamaican School Of QT3 Flamewar fame is serious or nor. If so, then you’ve really got issues relating to kids that don’t fit your ideals, don’t ya.
Jesus Pav, you need to take a vicodin.
If you’ve never been a public school teacher, then you should know that errant behavior is a lot more than ‘talking out of turn’. There are kids with serious behavior problems that stem from a lack of discipline in the home and perhaps chemical imbalances. The former being much more prevalent than the latter.
Kids with too much freedom from absent parents don’t submit themselves to being desk ridden for 7 hours a day and being ‘taught’ by anyone. They have a problem with accepting that anyone has authority over them. Many of these kids end up in the lockup by their own hand. It has nothing to do with me condemning thenm to a life of crime–they choose it themselves. Perhaps to get the attention they’ve always craved but never received from their parents.
Granted, high school is much more hands on teaching than college or AP courses, but some kids will not conform to any standards and have to be dealt with differently. Consequently, many large school districts have 1 facility reserved for such a purpose. Get a grip fella! This isn’t Naziism.
There was a time when I was young that the nutjobs got sent to millitary school. Perhaps some of you can remember this time-- before we were all pollitically correct and were too afraid of hurting johnny’s feelings and self-esteem. Never letting him play dodgeball or loose a baseball game or fail a test because it might hurt his fragile ego and turn him to the dark side. I say coddling kids teaches them to be soft and never work hard for success and achievement. It’s the reason so many of them expect to get out of school and have high paying jobs that they can buy a lexus and a 4000 square foot house with.
B, I doubt there was ever a time when the poor of america would ship their out-of-control kids to military school, for the simple reason they couldn’t afford it.