Pogo
2061
Christ, Brian, wrap that shit in spoiler tags. You don’t respond to a spoiler tag with that kind of specificity. If I talk comics in this thread, I use a condom. There wasn’t much of a spoiler, but I think the whole rule system for this thread has been pretty good ever since someone dropped that one location from the comic that may or may not be found in the show.
And I’m not sure why people are complaining about Hershel. They’ve been pretty adamant this season as showing him to be ignorant of what walkers actually are.
Sure, ripped up flesh should ring alarm bells about how “alive” the zombies are, but he was still clinging onto a hope of some sort and his belief in God. For him, it was enough of a “just a disease” situation that his hope overrode rationality. Human sentimentality is a powerful motivator. Hershel still wants to feel a connection to these people even though they’re not really alive. Most of the survivors do too, evidenced by their hesitance in the end of the scene.
The most poignant example for Hershel had to be made by Shane shooting the walker that he was leading. After the half-clip demonstration, you could see that Hershel was experiencing the reality of the situation for the first time. His transformation from ignorance is a process. I’m pretty sure the show’s writers wanted viewers to think he was some sort of irrational idiot or insane man, but what they give us time to find out is that he is neither.
jeffd
2062
Great midseason finale, the arc still went on at least two episodes longer than it needed to.
I have concluded that the best episodes in this series are the ones where zombie children die. Therefore, I demand zombie children in every episode henceforth.
nogwart
2064
I read all the books as they were/are published, and am loving the series as well even with the plot differences.
I agree this episode was fantastic, and was embarrassed for being surprised by Sophia.
Dale actually turned a corner for me with this episode from a likeable and well-meaning older fart to a potentially harmful, judgemental and meddling big, fat, stinky fart who isn’t smart enough to keep some secrets to himself at least until in a situation where it is safe to reveal them. As much as I now dislike Shane (I was on the fence until Otis), I was slightly disappointed that Shane didn’t give Dale a little bitch-slap after their confrontation with the guns. I wouldn’t be surprised (and might actually cheer) if Andrea does this sometime soon as well.
I also thought it was extremely unwise of Lori to tell Shane that she is pregnant, thus giving Shane yet one more reason to find some way to eliminate Rick from the mix.
GregB
2065
I thought Rick told Shane about Lori.
He did. Rick told Shane while he was initially huffing and puffing in front of the barn, at which point his entire outlook on life immediately changed and spun on a dime to go in the opposite direction.
I think he might not be in his altogether.
However, at the point that he told Shane, Rick already had verbal confirmation that Lori smashed the homie, so…I’m not really sure what he hoped to achieve. Because I have absolutely no idea how much time has passed between the start of the series and now, but the shorter that time is, the more likely it is that Shane is the father, because this show follows normal rules of female human biology (as opposed to American Horror Story, wherein Rubberman fucks you so right that you know you’re knocked up by the end of the episode).
Well if you’ve read the comic book, you’d know the baby’s really T-Dog’s.
Oops, should have put a spoiler alert. Damn! hits self Damn!
I saw Rick telling Shane about the pregnancy to deliberately throw him off his footing. Shane was winning the argument about leaving until Rick dropped that bomb, at which point Shane has to wonder “Is the baby mine? Does Rick know about me and Lori? Fuck.”
It’s funny reading this thread and then reading Andy Greenwald’s ridiculous recap.
I agree with him that this season has had some serious pacing issues, but think they served the mid-season finale well. The episode irritated me at the beginning because everyone’s actions and reactions seemed dictated by a random number generator, but things really took off from the moment Shane found Dale in the swamp and I was riveted. I figured out the barn reveal, but that didn’t detract from its impact (although the shots leading up to Rick gunning her down were gratuitously drawn out).
I didn’t have the problems with Herschel that a lot of people here seem to have. I can see him doing what he did both from a denial angle and one of hope. If you expose a devout Christian to a seemingly inexplicable apocalyptic scenario like that, what’s to stop them from thinking that maybe JC himself will come cure the zombies, or that you’ll be judged harshly for turning your backs on them? Plus, I’m all for weird character quirks that add to dramatic tension, and this definitely succeeded in that regard.
One of the things I like most about this show is that I hate the characters who are nearly always right. Shane and Dale have become virtually unwatchable, so it’s weird to find myself agreeing with them most of the time. That last episode had the best examples, with Shane shooting the bejeesus out of that zombie in front of Herschel, and Dale telling Andrea to stay the hell away from Shane. I was simultaneously nodding and wanting to kick them in the nuts.
I loved the nihilism of this season. This is pretty much the perfect zombie show for me. That link above seems to say they’re putting in a new producer or showrunner or something - horrible.
Greenwald comments on that as well, and I mentioned it upthread awhile back. TWD is an interesting commentary on how our opinions of the messenger influence our reception of the message. When truth is spoken by a source we’re predisposed to dislike, we are predisposed to ignore or deny said truth.
dermot
2072
I’ve enjoyed most of this show up to now and felt that the last episode was a worthy pay-off for the stuff that’s been happening over the course of the previous two. I liked that parallels were drawn between Rick and Herschel with regard to tenuous hope. The lingering shots of Rick stepping up to deal with Sophia were perfect in the context of the previous 45 minutes: for all Shane’s bluster about doing what had to be done, when it really came down it he couldn’t do what had to be done. Rick might be clinging to a sense of propriety and honour that doesn’t fit the world that they find themselves in but when push comes to shove, he’s the one that does the really hard stuff.
Of course, Herschel agreeing to let Rick’s people stay on the basis that they obey his rules means that Shane’s blow-out and decision to take matters into his own hands was rash and foolhardy and probably makes it impossible for them to stay now.
ETA: this and ‘Game of Thrones’ seem to be the only shows I watch that are willing to kill off characters that you don’t expect to see killed off or to off them in unexpected ways. Walking Dead also seems to be willing to leave things unresolved (Merle). Thus, I wasn’t anticipating Sophia being in the barn until the moment where it was revealed that there was still a walker in there, so it was an awesome feeling (in both the modern and traditional senses of ‘awesome’) when her fate was finally revealed - especially with her mother being right there to witness it.
I may be the only one who feels this way, and I need to watch that last episode again, but I did not get the impression Rick was the only one who could handle doing what needed to be done.
My impression was that the others were relaxed, since it was clear they had wiped them all out. It was a cathartic moment. Next, one final problem is left to be dealt with, and it posed NO threat whatsoever. There was absolutely no need at that point for anyone to step up, unlike during the previous OK corral scene. Their enemy would need to run an obstacle course to get anywhere near them, an enemy unable to run much at all even on clear ground. Finally, there was the utter shock they were dealing with.
I bet even Shane was thinking “I knew I was right but damn, this sucks zombie balls!”
Rick, on the other hand, had a whole other motivation. He was the enemy fraternizer, who everyone expected to hash out a ‘no zombies in the barn’ deal with Herschel and next thing his people see, Rick is bringing MOAR zombies with Herschel! Dude needed to save face and do it ASAP. What better way than a coup de grace before Shane can steal all the credit?
Because he has consistently demonstrated that saving face is a big part of his character?
The scene was staged so that there really wasn’t all that much danger, throughout. It wasn’t a pitched battle. Anyone who stepped up (e.g., Glenn) was doing it primarily out of obligation, not a sense of danger and urgency.
I think you reading the scene in a very unorthodox way.
Call me unorthodox, then, because I saw it the same way gameoverman did. I saw Rick’s shooting of Sophia as his way of reasserting himself as the leader, not because no one else would do it.
It’s hard to say if anyone else would have done it. I don’t think whether they were in danger or not is that important. It was a kid, the kid’s mother was right there, and it was a member of their group. Shane or the others can talk all they want about doing what needs to be done if someone gets bit, but it’s just a lot of talk until the situation actually presents itself.
dermot
2077
Apart from Rick and Carole, they’re all standing there staring at Sophia like slack-jawed idiots. Any one of them could have put her down - and maybe would they would have - but the point is that Rick is the one who displays the resolve to do it first. I don’t think it’s about saving face for Rick, largely because he’s written as the kind of person who never feels the need to save face. Protagonists rarely do; antagonists - Shane - do.
nogwart
2078
True, I did forget that, but my point was that Lori chose to tell Shane at all. Unless I missed it, I don’t think Rick told Lori that he told Shane she was pregnant, so she was taking it upon herself to let him know, and he did seem to be letting her know that he was happy about it, at least until she shot him down with the “it will NEVER be your baby” stuff.
Also, I can’t say I’m really pleased with what seems like a potential pairing up of Daryl and Carol. They’ve had a few sentimental scenes together now, and the thought of them as a couple just kind of rubs me wrong.
I’m not really getting the bumping uglies vibe from them. It might just be that I am completely unable to think of a woman with a crew cut as any kind of sexual object, but Carol feels to me like a completely asexual creature. I got the significance of her actually opening up to any other human being, but that’s about all I got out of it.
Juntei
2080
Maybe Carol has seen what we have seen in Darryl, that he’s a badass who can survive in what the world has become, so this might be more about security for Carol. In the world they are in now her prospects are fairly limited for for finding someone who will help her survive, and she also has the daughter to think about. Darryl is definately better than her dead husband.
On a different tangent I’d totally watch a spin-off show with Darryl as the main character.
