2721

spoiler from the comics…

Q23 has to improve their spoiler tag utilization

[spoiler]One of my favorite characters in the comic is the big african american dude who they leave in the gym at the prison alone for death in a room full of zombies… but this badass survives. He develops a relationship with Michone.

I assumed he would be the big dude in this week’s episode. But he was the first to die! Bummer.[/spoiler]

2722

D’oh! My apologies. I didn’t make the association between the events in the comic and that scene. I thought you were advocating or lampooning an annoying trope about race and relationships in tv shows.

2723

Worst spoiler tag ever! :)

2724

Another really good episode.

I liked the interaction between Rick’s crew and the prisoners: they knew better than to trust them but didn’t necessarily want to just kill them in cold blood either. I really thought that Rick was going to wimp out and back down before he buried the hatchet at the end.

I am curious why Rick was so anxious to run pell-mell after the mousy prisoner through a darkened cell-block that he has practically no reason to believe is zombie-free. First off, I get that the guy took a half-hearted swing at him with a bat and thus declared himself to be an ally of the late, unlamented greaser, but… why did that translate into a death sentence? And why was it necessary to run after him and kill him immediately? Was Rick afraid he and his baseball bat were going to mount a guerrilla campaign from the zombie-haunted shadows of the prison?

I did enjoy the “prison riot shit” that the group tried on the first few zombies. I always chuckle when the show manages to play an incredibly gory, violent act for laughs.

2725

Is this thread a spoiler thread for the comics?

2726

They establish in season 1 when they are at the CDC and Jenner is showing them the test subject that they have seen where reanimation can occur anywhere from as little as 3 minutes to 17 hours

2727

I couldn’t figure this one out either and I like to make excuses for the Walking Dead.

2728

I got the sense that Rick intended to kill all five of them then and there. I really like the ruthlessness of that aspect of it. He was just following through on what had come up in his earlier conversation with Lori. And at that point, he had no idea how lamented or unlamented the greaser would be.

Dramatically, he chased the mousy guy down so we could get the scene of that guy being left to the zombies. But from a more practical standpoint, I understand that he doesn’t want to leave any loose ends wandering the halls out of a desire to protect everyone else.

-Tom
2729

Yeah I agree with Tom. I thought Rick decided that all the prisoners had to die. The decision was already made in his head. Chasing down the squirrelly dude who took off down the hallway was insurance to make sure he wouldn’t get away. If he did get away then Rick would have a hidden enemy in his midst. Better to just kill him now and get it over with.

What surprised me is that Rick and Tbone and the asian dude agreed to be outnumbered by the prison dudes when they were zombie hunting.

You would think if there are 5 prison dudes that at least 7 or so of Rick’s dudes would be hunting with the prison dudes otherwise they would be outnumbered. I realize Rick doesn’t have 7 men to spare. I am sure there is a tactical reason he just went with three (the prisoners haven’t seen anyone else from Rick’s group other than H, so why expose the females to make prison inmates, or worse his son, Carl?).

Either way, pretty damn risky to be outnumbered by crazed prisoners… gun or no gun.

2730

Well, Daryl is so badass he counts as five dudes, so they’re all set.

-Tom
2731

The scene was precisely to show that Rick was going to be both decisive and ruthless. Rick has come to grips with them being in full survival mode because law and order isn’t about to assert itself any time soon.

I am curious why Rick was so anxious to run pell-mell after the mousy prisoner through a darkened cell-block that he has practically no reason to believe is zombie-free. First off, I get that the guy took a half-hearted swing at him with a bat and thus declared himself to be an ally of the late, unlamented greaser, but… why did that translate into a death sentence? And why was it necessary to run after him and kill him immediately? Was Rick afraid he and his baseball bat were going to mount a guerrilla campaign from the zombie-haunted shadows of the prison?

He was party to a plan to back-stab our heroes and when push came to shove, stood by it. So, yes, death sentence. As to running after him, no sense in allowing trouble to brew - they’ve had a taste of that already. Running down the corridor - well, they pretty much just cleared it of all walkers since they had gravitated to the room with the noise and combat. And if they hadn’t, baseball bat mousy dude was gonna get swarmed first and Rick could decide to retreat or continue as circumstances dictated.

I did enjoy the “prison riot shit” that the group tried on the first few zombies. I always chuckle when the show manages to play an incredibly gory, violent act for laughs.

They were prisoners precisely because they weren’t the brightest people on earth in the first place, so it fit. They didn’t pay attention, they didn’t quite grasp the tenuous and weak nature of their bargaining position, they didn’t figure out that they needed strength, not division - basic morons.

2732

It was semi-foreshadowed by both the statement to Lori and also Daryl pointing out the inevitability of confronting the greaser after Tiny’s death, but I didn’t get the impression that he had resolved to kill anyone until after the obvious (and ham-handed) attempts on his life during the fight.

I did like the ruthlessness of the actions and how decisive he was in all his actions once he decided on them – it’s great to see that Rick has fully turned the corner from the wishy-washy, reluctant, democratic leader at the farm to pragmatic warlord. I was afraid that his “this isn’t a democracy” speech at the end of last season would be ignored or set aside.

I can see that, I think. It’s just that mousy-guy didn’t actually seem to be party to anything. It was only the greaser that ever raised a hand against Rick & Co., all the others followed orders and were apparently not involved in any planning. It was only after the greaser (maybe not a close friend, but certainly someone he knew well after 10 months in the same room) was cut down in front of him that Mousy Guy took any action.

Again, he raised a weapon against Rick so some kind of action was called for, that’s clear.

I can see that too – Rick’s hard-earned experience with Shane supports that type of attitude.

This is still my biggest issue. it was a huge space and it took them some significant amount of time to weave through. There is no way that Rick should have done that, not after their experience last episode in very similar halls. You can speculate that Mousy Guy would have gotten nabbed first, but you could also say that Mousy Guy would have simply roused any semi-dormant ones (e.g., the one that got Hershel) so that they were riled up for Rick.

But don’t take my arguments the wrong way: I liked the episode a great deal and this is a nit-pick at best. Dramatically, it worked well, and I liked how it illustrated the “New Rick’s” ruthlessness. It’s just the writers have been better this season to not have anyone act in a monumentally stupid manner and I think this one comes pretty close to that line.

2733

I think Rick was resigned to killing all 5 prisoners, but when the older guy was weeping and begging for his life, and the other guy just stoically told Rick to do what he would, Rick realized there was a difference between killing Bad Moustache for the threat he presented and coldly offing two completely subdued and defenseless guys. With Bad Moustache and Bat Boy gone, odds are the remaining two wouldn’t be much of a threat anyway, and might eventually be useful once time passes and the deaths of their “friends” are old history.

2734

OT, but am I the only one who has an objection to casually tossing the term “greaser” around for the (admittedly greasy-haired) Hispanic guy?

2735

It’s a touch uncomfortable; the characters name is “Tomas”. I really only remember that from Talking Dead, but I think it’s a better option.

2736

Was he Hispanic? I guess since he’s played by a guy named Gomez he must be. Previously I took him to be… sorta Italian.

And is “greaser” an anti-Hispanic epithet? If so, then I apologize and will refrain in the future. I chose “greaser” because of the hair and honestly because I thought he was vaguely Italian. And I thought that enough time had passed since 1955 where that wouldn’t be construed as overly offensive.

2737

It’s usually employed as a derogatory term for Hispanics, so, yeah, I would advise against casually slinging it about to those who have been doing so.

2738

I knew it as an anti-Hispanic slur (per wikipedia, originating in the mid-19th Century in the Southwestern US, apparently, due to the fact that many Mexicans/Mexican-Americans worked at greasing wagon-wheel axles and animal hides, both considered lowly occupations). It was later used as an abbreviation of the anti-Italian slur “greaseball,” too, in this context.

It also refers to a subculture of young working-class rocker types in the late 50’s specifically because of their use of hair pomades. This was true in the UK as well for guys that later became known as Rockers (vs. the Mods). This use of greaser is apparently non-derogatory.

Anyway, moving on…

2739

I live in Tucson and have never heard “greaser” used as a slur against Hispanics. I also associate it primarily with pre-Beatle rockers.

2740

That second meaning may have replaced the other one in the minds of most, true. Also it may be more of a California thing. There was even an early law in California (in the 1850’s or something) literally called “the Greaser Act” if you can believe it.