I think perfectly reasonable people are fully capable of making idiotic decisions. Michonne hasn’t had the benefit of watching the show either and she seems to know perfectly well that the Governor is bad news and they should light out of there asap.
Michonne is the sort of person who would dismember and drag around zombies to provide camouflage. She’s not your average survivor.
The pilot’s head was animated too – if you look carefully you can see the eyes moving a little bit.
Eh. We are given to assume that Merle was a jerk at the initial camp and that Andrea knew that, but she wasn’t with the scrounging-team in Atlanta when Merle went off the deep end and threatened T-Dog and Glenn; she only heard about it second-hand.
And although he was certainly angry and somewhat bitter, he didn’t act psychotic. His point about not killing them in the woods, bringing them back to Woodbury and pumping her full of (presumably sparse) medication was valid. There would be room for a skeptical person to think that nine months away from his meth and running from shambling ghouls might have been enough to change the guy for the better.
I don’t think that anyone there would have tried to make the argument that they were free to go the first night. That was a transparent polite fiction. The question is whether - a couple days on - they believe that being shadowed by the thuggish black guy is the same thing as being prisoners. Especially given that they doesn’t appear to be any reason for the Governor to want to force them to stay (from their point of view).
Difficult to say whether this belongs here or in P&R, but I’ll make the executive decision:
Joss Weadon endorses a candidate.
Hey Tin,
Oops, I thought she was there. It’s been a while. In any case, no decent person would put Merle in charge of two women. If you met a man in this context who’d cut his own hand off, wouldn’t you be a little, um, uncomfortable with him being in charge of you or anyone you cared about?
There would be room for a skeptical person to think that nine months away from his meth and running from shambling ghouls might have been enough to change the guy for the better.
That doesn’t sound like skepticism to me, it sounds like rosed-colored glasses. Why would anyone expect a zombie apocalypse to make people nicer??? Besides, five seconds into any conversation with Merle and you know you’re not dealing with a nice person. I don’t actually think there is “room” for expecting armed strangers to be good people in this context. They may prove to be such, sure, but we’re well past giving people the benefit of the doubt in this case. Aren’t we?
I don’t think that anyone there would have tried to make the argument that they were free to go the first night. That was a transparent polite fiction. The question is whether - a couple days on - they believe that being shadowed by the thuggish black guy is the same thing as being prisoners. Especially given that they doesn’t appear to be any reason for the Governor to want to force them to stay (from their point of view).
There doesn’t have to be an apparent reason when there is an obvious desire. Indeed, an obvious desire WITHOUT an apparent reason is grounds for suspicion. The Governor clearly wants them to stay and he’s not being nice about it. His only selling point so far is Andrea’s fear and weakness after being ill. He’s being very manipulative right off the bat, which begs way too many questions. He shouldn’t have to be manipulative at all if his town is such a nice place. That’s simply not a trustworthy person in my book.
Hey, not trying to pick any fights. Just trying to think myself into their situation and I can’t see the level of trust Andrea is offering the Governor as terribly healthy. I think she could use a touch more skepticism when it comes to unknown authority is all.
I’m not saying it’s unrealistic. That’s one of the great strengths of the show: people do all manner of boneheaded things, but they do them for all too human reasons. The show does its job as long as it makes me care. It feels to me like some post-apocalyptic variation on Stockholm Syndrome: her profoundly unrealistic desire to believe that the world could go back to the way it was before the zombies overwhelms her better judgment and leads her to trust the man who says he can do it 'cause he says so. To me, the actress even seems to be playing it that way. There’s just a little distractedness in her demeanor as she tries to buy what the Governor is selling. I fear for Andrea.
Um. She actually was there. You may recall a key scene with Rick in the store when he showed her the safety on her gun and reminded her to have it off the next time she wanted to threaten someone. Also, she picked out a ring for her sister. She is well aware of bad Merle.
Huh, I guess that’s true. I may have to go back and re-watch the first season.
corsair
2807
Which reminded me that I missed episode 2 of the original series, so I finally watched it on NetFlix last night. Yup, safety, necklace (not ring), Merle’s an absolute scumbag and Andrea saw it.
One thing to remember about Andrea is she has her own bit of a rebel streak with respect to the old group. IIRC, she was ready to runoff with Shane at one point.
I don’t think she’s necessarily all-in on conclusions like Merle=bad. She’s also part of the original camping group, so she has Merle interactions that the viewer doesn’t see: her opinion of Merle isn’t based on just what we’ve seen.
They certainly implied that during her most recent dialog with him, but if that has any weight in all this they should have emphasized the fact better IMO. (I’m not disagreeing with you, just nit-picking how they’ve handled the ambiguity thus far.)
Grifman
2810
I think you’re ignoring where they’ve been and where they are now. On the run for several months during the winter. Now they find a functioning town, with water, electricity, food, safety, people seemingly happy, they even have a doctor. You’re going to want it to all be true, that there’s not some hidden problem. Given what she’s been through, nearly dying from sickness, probably hungry, running from walkers, not knowing from day to day where she’ll live or die, I see her attitude as entirely reasonable. Wishful thinking can be very powerful to people in desperate situations.
rowe33
2811
I was pretty sure the Governor’s secret room was holding his zombified wife and daughter but I guess not. Figured that was partially what all the zombie research was about.
I don’t see why he’s so interested in the other group though, unless he’s trying to round up as many child-bearing women as possible to build his community for the future.
I totally got a Jim Jones/David Koresh vibe off the guy from the start.
JFrazer
2813
I could be wrong, but I think the first head they showed in the tank was his wife’s. Or at least implying it was her. The connection between the tanks and the research does seem pretty compelling. “They are still in there somewhere”.
I’m still of two-minds about the killing of the national guardsmen. On the one hand, the governor seems to have surrounded himself with people he can control, so having the guardsmen in the camp would introduce an element outside his control. On the other hand, yeah, 70-something people does not a civilization make, and it seems weird to kill off able-bodied men. Especially after the helicoptor pilot explained to him how their walls were breached.
On the Merle front, he’s the perfect person to have under your command. He’s ruthless but also loyal. And I suspect the Gov said at some point “if you follow me, I will help you find your brother”.
Andrea… she’s shown herself to be attracted to irrational people as long as they offer power and safety. She was in bed, literally, with Shane. Doesn’t seem far-fetched that she would willingly stay in the camp, even with a suspicion that they aren’t all good folks.
Something in this episode that didn’t make sense, and it’s just nit-picky, is Andrea saying she got separated from the group at the farm 9 months ago. If that’s the case, the baby should have been long past delivery.
My view on the women in Woodbury:
Michonne survived on her own, figuring out the camo zombie thing on her own for instance. Wandering the wasteland does not intimidate her in the least, so she’s free to harbor distrust as a standard MO. If she had run into Rick’s group instead I bet she’d react the same way.
Andrea on the other hand is conditioned to survive in a group. She’s clueless otherwise. She’s the exact kind of person who will sell herself on the idea of this being an awesome place, because she not only wants to believe she needs to believe.
I think the Governor’s treatment of the National guard unit mirrors Rick’s interaction with the prisoners, except the Governor is past worrying about others(ie nongroup people). There was no way the prisoners were going to be integrated into Rick’s group, a large influx of men who have previously formed their own group is a direct threat. You have to kill such a group as soon as you can. The alternative is that they will kill the leadership of your group and take it over.
The only problem I have with that scene is the way it was staged. That unit doesn’t score a couple of hits at least before they eat it? Lame. Otherwise I think this is by far the best three episode stretch in this show’s history. THIS is the zombie show I always wanted.
Well, Lori haters can now rejoice.
ddtibbs
2817
That was just a little bit intense.
Warning
2818
Holy shit. That was brutal.
Hrnac
2819
That was pretty intense. Can’t wait for next Sunday’s episode. Season 3 has been absolutely outstanding so far.
That escalated quickly.
Confused about Carol though. Is she missing or…?
