Walking Dead on AMC


It’s Negan, not Neegan.

Pretty disappointed with the way the show handled such an important event from the comics, although the double tap was an effective way to convey the same shock to readers already familiar with the story that the events initially have to the unfamiliar. I also liked how Darryl’s inclusion (absent from the comics) altered events in an interesting way.

What I really hated in both this episode and even more so in the season finale was the way events were stretched out and teased, largely by given Negan and his crew supernatural abilities/awareness. The side trip Negan took with Rick was just ridiculous and couldn’t have possibly ended in anything other than Rick’s death (immediately, or though being bitten). But instead, Negan just happened to pop up every time the script required him to after Rick had been painted into a corner, and never injured Rick despite firing blindly through the roof or around him - it was all just so contrived and ridiculous.

And by making this confrontation so elaborate and lengthy, they entire episode made very little sense within the context of the setting – why the hell would Negan tie up (and risk) hundreds of his guys for hours/days just to capture and “break” Rick and crew? They would just immediately kill these 7 people, especially after what they’d already done to Negan’s crew, and just walk into Alexandria after decapitating its leadership and have acquired another settlement.

In the comics, which are by no means a roadmap to plausible human reactions, the events made more sense and were more shocking as a result - there wasn’t the build-up or prolonged encounter - Rick and crew had previously run into a hostile Savior crew and defeated it on the road, but then was caught by surprise by Negan when resting for the night when taking a car from Alexandria to Hilltop - Negan did what he always did when meeting a new crew - killed one to make a point and cower the rest. Brief, unexpected, and shocking, and more effectively conveyed the dangers of the world and the fact that there were other people who were even more organized, numerous, and dangerous.

The TV show’s depiction of those events were so heavy-handed, so reliant on absurd coincidences and unlikely events, and so manipulative of the audience that I’m skeptical that the show can get back on track. I think Kirkman has too much influence and is forcing the show to follow the books too closely, but in an overly indulgent bloated manner.

Also don’t think Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a very good actor - even though I like him in stuff like Magic City and Watchmen-- a lot of Negan’s dialogue during the bashing scenes was stripped right from the comic and yet it felt flatter than it should have. Negan is actually a very interesting character in the comics, and often quite funny (when not being sadistic) - he has his own sense of honor too - not sure that JDM can deliver those lines effectively or convey the same nuance without seeming cartoonish.

I was surprised at the extent of the gore in the bashings - that was right at Noe’s Irreversible level and pretty unpleasant to see, but I applaud the producers for having the courage to go with that - the deaths of known characters have continued to get more gruesome and upsetting, which is a difficult feat to accomplish given how common death is on the show.

Finally, I think that there really was no reason not to show the victim in the season finale, and then have Darryl’s intervention and consequencial in the season premiere, which would have been less manipulative (and annoying to fans of the books) and yet made both episodes more shocking and given each victim a more distinct moment.


This is not a criticism, just out of curiosity, why does someone whom quit watching a show years ago follow a thread about it.


Somebody elsewhere on the interwebs was comparing the violence in this week’s episode to Westworld (which I do watch) so I figured I’d pop in here and see what this episode of TWD was about.


Oh, man, I was looking forward to Westworld, but is it head-pumpkin-level violent? This episode was just disgusting. It was one thing when they graphically portrayed that level of violence against walkers, who are already dead. But the graphic death of Glenn was just disgusting.

The portrayal of Negan is so incredibly one-dimensional so far.

I read the first few years of the comic, and watched the first season of the show and intended to come back to it. My son was super-anxious to watch last night’s premiere so I watched the John Cleese recap of the series-so-far before we watched the premiere, and between the recap and last night’s show I’m not feeling so bad about missing seasons 2-6.

The John Cleese recap rocked, though.


Westworld is violent, but not this-past-episode-of-TWD violent. Also there are spoiler-y reasons why the violence on Westworld has less of a visceral impact (though it is disturbing in other ways.)


Well, I guess the short answer is I keep thinking I’ll get into it, and then I poke my head in here and everyone always sounds so dissatisfied I just figure oh well, maybe things will pick up. Helps that I’m not spoiler phobic in the least.

But mainly I’m a big fan of zombie fiction and I feel like I ought to be enjoying this, having a hard time reconciling with myself that I just don’t. So I keep up with it vicariously through this thread, the A.V. Club, stuff like that. Hard to let go completely, though that day is likely coming.


Not even remotely. The subject matter can be pretty disturbing though, but it’s not gory in general, and certain nowhere near the extent of Walking Dead. The bashing scene in Walking Dead was something that stands alone, imo


Stop looking forward and start watching - it’s the best thing on. :)


That was a pretty cheesy clip. Reminds me of the low budget shows from the 70’s.


Don’t let this thread be a good indicator of the quality of the show. I almost gave up at Season 2 as well. But then the superb Walking Dead Season 1 game is what convinced me to give the show another try. And after watching the excellent Season 3 and 4 and 5, each time I would check the thread (since I usually watched on Netflix after a season was over) I’d be surprised at how much Qt3 disliked each episode and each season.

Now, it’s true that this time I actually agree with everyone. The last season stunk, and I hated this season premier. But if I was going by this thread, I would have thought Seasons 3, 4 and 5 were bad too. They aren’t as good as Telltale’s Walking Dead Season One, but they are close sometimes.


What a mess of a season opener. I’ll spoiler my thoughts as to not give away stuff that happened if you haven’t seen it yet. I feel this episode was pretty bad overall.

[spoiler]The 2 deaths in this one episode is probably the stupidest thing the writers could have done. They should have killed big red at the end of last season, that way they make Negan the big baddie that actually did something, other than play, eenie meenie minie moe. And people could have talked about it all summer long, and come back to season 7. As they would not be expecting another death of a main character so soon. Only to have Glenn also then killed. Then maybe it would seem like he actually means buisness, and Rick wouldn’t be whispering “I’ll kill you!!!”

As both deaths were shown maybe 5 minutes apart, big red’s death feels less meaningful.

Then the entire BS scene of Rick / Negan and the RV. This served no purpose at all.
I wish Negan would have really made Rick take off Carl’s arm, so he can become the Pirate we all want him to be.[/spoiler]


Negan doesn’t appear to be stupid, so I don’t understand why he would leave group Alphas (Rick, MIchonne) in a position to come back seeking revenge. Despite the eenie-meenie business, he probably recognized Abe as a potential threat. Perhaps even Glenn too, after the outburst last season. At the very least he should have taken them (Rick & Michonne) captive along with Daryl.

There is no upside for Negan of Rick being free, or Michonne either. And if he wanted a hostage to insure Rick’s compliance, why not take Coral?

Very sloppy writing.

I’m curious as to how many people complaining about the violence also have been watching Ash vs. Evil Dead this season? I know the comedy takes some of the edge off, but the show has been consistently gorier than even TWD. At least Rick didn’t try to put Glenn’s head back together

Although I would have like to see that.


There was a Verge article someone linked a few posts ago that made a pretty good argument that TWD’s gore this week was inconsistent with the show. It’s not purely what is and isn’t seen, the context matters too.


I haven’t read the article, but I agree with that sentiment. We’ve never seen the show treat humans this way, only zombies. After having a night to think about it, I think I’m done with this show for now. Maybe I’ll come back to it like I did last time I left in Season 2, but for now, I’m done watching it on a weekly basis. I just don’t see how the show can go anywhere appealing after this. Either misery or eventual revenge, and neither of those options seem particularly appealing right now.


Here’s the relevant chunk of the The Verge article I was thinking of. All spoilers, obviously:

[spoiler]There’s something about the glibness of the Hollywood Forever cemetery screening — and the baseball-bat emoji that Twitter rolled out — that’s really offensive when viewed in light of the events this episode depicts, and how it depicts them.

Off the top, let me be clear: killing off characters on a show like this is fair game, and I have no general problems with horror, gore, or on-screen violence, either. (I’m the guy that steps up to defend the aesthetics of Hostel 2 when others won’t touch it.) But context is everything, and in this episode, Glenn is hit by a baseball bat so hard that his eye pops out. Then the camera lingers on his face as he struggles to recover, muttering to Maggie, until he is put out of his misery.

There’s no question that there’s been plenty of blood and gore in The Walking Dead overall. But this is a show that, whether intentionally or not, has been utterly cartoonish in its depictions of violence. It’s a show where the copious sprays of blood are so obviously computer-generated that it almost seems like they’re downplaying the viscera on purpose. Given that history, the shots of Glenn’s murder were outrageously grotesque, and utterly out of character. It’s hard to not see it as just another example of torturing the audience to get a cheap reaction — Hey, let’s tear apart the face of one of our most beloved characters! — instead of earning the moment through sheer storytelling prowess.

The obscenity of it all is that the show had all the tools it needed to create a truly emotional moment at its disposal. Glenn dying is awful unto itself. The thought of Glenn never seeing his unborn child is gut-wrenching. Watching Lauren Cohan’s Maggie fall apart is harrowing. That’s what audiences should have walked away from the episode thinking about. Instead, I’m fixated on the perverse makeup effect. That’s a failure, and while it’s on Greg Nicotero, the visual-effects maven who became one of TWD’s go-to directors under Gimple’s watch, it’s also on AMC. As Entertainment Weekly’s James Hibberd pointed out on Twitter, the same network that feels the need to bleep our curse words felt just fine airing these visuals. That alone is a reason to reconsider watching the show.[/spoiler]


And yet to my knowledge AMC doesn’t have any cursing or nudity of any sorts. It is very strange where people draw the line on what’s acceptable.


So, the “long-awaited” season premiere… two gory whack-a-moles, and The Comedian and Rick go on a short bonding trip (my wife learned what the phrase “plot armor” meant, since Rick was oozing it from every pore). That took about 30 minutes, the rest of which was filled with a AMC double-spraying commercials all over my unwilling face.

What I took away from this:

  1. Fuck AMC deciding that TWD needs to pay for the rest of the network;
  2. If I want gore and nonsense, I’ll watch Ash vs. the Evil Dead instead. The nonsense is vastly more amusing, the gore less po-faced and more creative (in the last episode, we had a close-up of a car peeling out on a guy’s face and the 6-Million Dollar Man’s brains spread out over the pavement), and Starz doesn’t have commercials.


At the risk of sounding like I’m defending the premiere (which I thought was disappointing), I’m not really sure what people like The Verge article author and others I’ve seen with similar complaints want out of this show. I see the complaints that the show writers/directors could have played these scenes for far more emotional impact than just straight up brutality and gore and I think, “Have you seen The Walking Dead?”.

The show has always been ham-fisted in it’s storytelling. That’s the point I was making in my post above expressing disappointment in the episode. Every time they’re given an opportunity to transcend the simple nature of comic book storytelling, they seem to double-down on it instead. This show is a comic book on television, it will never be the high art some people seem to think it should be. In the end, it’s a show about a zombie apocalypse, and as such it doesn’t shy away from the brutality and horror that such a setting would encompass. It may not be elegant, but it is effective.


Thanks for the Ash vs. Evil Dead spoilers in a Walking Dead thread! That’s awesome. Wait, no, it’s not. Feel free to spoiler tag cross show spoilers in the future.

As for Walking Dead itself, my wife and I think we’re done, much like others here. Had last season concluded this way, we may have felt differently. However, it’s been six months since we saw these folks, so sudden deaths like this don’t have the same impact as when were spending every Sunday with them for a while.

I already hated the Negan storyline from the comics. He’s what a poor writer thinks a complex, deep villain looks like. In practice, he just becomes a waking monologue machine that attempts to be somehow more interesting than The Governor, but never gets there.

This show, by its very nature, has no plot other than the characters simply surviving. No real goals, no “there” for them to get to. We knew that going in, but at some point I think we realized that that no longer interests us. The narrative can only really ever be the same thing, escalated. I think we’re out.


Here, let me spoil the next one:

  • Some people die in a ridiculously gory way
  • Ash spouts of some one-liners
  • Dana DeLorenzo and Lucy Lawless get naked and have a pillows-filled-with-shaving-cream fight
  • Pablo and the Necronomicon elope