Warcraft 3 interface questions

I’m having a problem with my peons. It seems they won’t build multiple buildings if I queue them up like I would in Age of Mythology. I can shift-click all I want but they don’t listen.

Is there a jump-to-barracks keyboard shortcut, or anything like that to get to a specific production building? I run out of group shortcuts as it is.

Is there a button or a key for idle military units, like for peons?

Can you drag-select multiple targets in WC3 like in Homeworld? It’d be really great for taking out tauren with my casters.

All this with respect to wumpus’ posts in this thread.

Just off the top of my head…

before we start, I’m not defending WC3’s interface, merely pointing out that AoM and WC3 have similar interface problems. Six of one, half dozen of another. There’s no doubt that WC3’s interface is somewhat better than AoM’s-- on the basis that it consistently prints the hotkeys next to the commands if nothing else (not to mention that unnecessary combat sub-menu)-- but any argument that one is head and shoulders above the others is specious.

I’m having a problem with my peons. It seems they won’t build multiple buildings if I queue them up like I would in Age of Mythology. I can shift-click all I want but they don’t listen.

You can shift-queue actions AFTER the building, eg, build this barracks then immediately return to harvesting wood-- I use that all the time-- but AFAIK you can’t shift+queue the buildings themselves.

Is there a jump-to-barracks keyboard shortcut, or anything like that to get to a specific production building? I run out of group shortcuts as it is.

You can assign your building(s) to a group the same way you would units. I don’t think there’s any analog to this in AoM. Some people like to have shortcuts to a few of their main buildings this way. One thing I do is SHIFT+select all my production buildings then set the right-click rally point to my hero, which definitely has no analog in AoM. Which is a real pain in the ass, actually… it means you have to babysit your units to the front lines, because rally points can only be on the ground, not attached to specific units.

Is there a button or a key for idle military units, like for peons?

No, but as you’re fielding a much smaller army (say an average of 12 units + 10 peons in WC3 compared to 30+ units and 30+ villagers in AoM-- not to mention building wall tower counts!), this is rarely a problem in my experience. Every now and then you’ll get an ally who will leave a unit or two in your base by accident, but it’s not common. It wouldn’t hurt to have this function, of course.

Can you drag-select multiple targets in WC3 like in Homeworld? It’d be really great for taking out tauren with my casters.

I’m not sure drag-selecting is a practical combat technique; how are you going to drag a box around a few units in the middle of a massive furball? One thing you can do is SHIFT-queue combat commands. Eg, attack this guy, then attack this guy, then attack this guy.

All of this pales next to the combat AI problems, though.

Number of times my units have attacked buildings when enemy units are fighting nearby in Warcraft 3: Zero.
Number of times my units have attacked buildings when enemy units are fighting nearby in Age of Mythology: Constantly.

I realize your post is somewhat tongue in cheek, but I’ll bite:

while I’ve more or less giving up on liking wc3, I have to give it props for one improvement over starcraft. blizzard seems to have greatly toned down their use of user interface limitations to balance the game. these were absolutely oppressive in starcraft. for instance: no unit training queues for zerg and the differing group size limitations based on the units’ power. unfortunately they left in the bullshit about some sides being able to queue build orders and others not (at least not consistently).

I think both wc3 and aom would benefit from a ctrl-rclick to select multiple similar targets. I think this oversight is MUCH more apparent in wc3, a game designed around micro managing combat.

I don’t really get the jump to barracks feature or the idle military unit hotkey, but i’m still learning AOM.

funny, when you wrote this:

All of this pales next to the combat AI problems, though.

i was certain that you were about to discuss how badly clumped units interact with each other in wc3. i always feel like I’m watching the ten stooges all encased in a huge transparent plastic bubble. they make a half hearted attempt to move around one way, bouncing off the invisible barriers of friendly units, and then ponderously turning around to try the other way, only to bounce off another invisible wall. it’s absolutely infuriating to watch or try to control.

i was certain that you were about to discuss how badly clumped units interact with each other in wc3.

Yeah, but that’s a problem endemic to the genre, and specifically, the complexities of pathfinding in combat-- I can show you the same problem in Total Annihilation or any other RTS with 3D units. The more units you have in combat, the worse it potentially gets.

That said, I wish both WC3 and AoM had copied TA’s elegant queueing scheme-- any set of commands could be queued for any unit. None of these BS arbitrary queuing restrictions we see in both games. Not only that, but holding down SHIFT actually showed you what those commands were, too…

I think this oversight is MUCH more apparent in wc3, a game designed around micro managing combat.

You can beat 90% of the players on battle.net without micromanaging anything except your hero. The default auto-cast spells are well chosen, and the default combat AI is quite good.

Hero management, on the other hand, is definitely critical. That’s far less onerous than having to supervise the other 10-12 units fighting, though. And I find microing your hero to be kinda fun, because of the Diablo-esque level ups and item collection. You get personally invested in their wellbeing, which I can’t say about the tiny, generic respawning heroes in AoM. Battles to keep your hero alive, or to kill an opposing hero, have a visceral immediacy that is completely lacking in AoM.

I agree the AOM heroes are totally generic. Maybe the unit acknowledgements are part of the problem here. When your units can’t respond in English, they can’t say things that make them memorable. (I still love the Firebats’ acknowledgements in Starcraft…)

Also, this is out of left field and OT for the thread, but there are some odd lapses in the sound design in AOM. Arrow-strike sounds are particularly weak, and when a fleet of Triremes attacks a dock, it sounds about as dramatic as someone throwing pebbles at a neighbor’s window.

Oh hush, I just made up some questions to bug wumpus. You spoiled all my fun :)

PS
I actually have the same complaint about the AI down in my review. That and many others about the interface. Like how difficult it is to target an enemy hero in the thick of battle :(

I actually think the muted sounds are intended. If you notice, only myth units have really stand-out sound effects.

Well the result is that epic naval battles sound dinky, so I’d say it was an unwise design choice. But yes, some of the myth fx are cool, i.e. the Nemean Lion Roar or that crackling sound as a Medusa turns a unit to stone.

Use all siege and hammer ships :D

Seriously, the impression I got was that they were aiming for a distant-battlefield feel, and only really loud or impressive sounds would get to you. Elephant roars, colossi stomping around, battering rams, etc.

When, if ever, does the A.I. build walls? Or are they impractical and none of the ‘good’ players use them either. They seem relatively cheap and quick to build.

Please resume the scintillating interface debate.