idrisz
2001
There is a DPS parser that record all damage dealt and taken by your character out right now.
But it’s extremely easy to tell who have the short end of the stick just by comparing the skills sorc and BW have.
Doesn’t make sense to me either.
HRose
2003
It doesn’t make sense, but it isn’t the real problem.
The real problem is that the keep conquest gives you 2000 xp. Do two quests and you get much more.
They should know that these kind of fixes are going to piss players off more than make them happy. Totally counterproductive.
z22
2004
They still need to add much more incentive to RVR. Last night I saw a automated message that a keep in the zone I was in was under attack. Being the loyal protector that I am I hurried over to the keep, stood around in my defensive position for about a half an hour, … and twiddled my thumbs. Net gain, zip. This doesn’t bother me, but I’m sure even I would stop bothering with RVR after ~6 fruitless attempts at RVR.
At this point, I would be most pleased with removing the Scenarios from the game and pretending they never existed, improving all Renown rewards to epics (purples), and tying all Renown rewards to RVR. Last thing I want from WHO is another WoW BG crapfest.
I love all of the Scenario hate. The one thing that makes Warhammer instantly fun and interesting and you want to remove it so people will play more RvR? That’s a completely fucked up way to approach the problem.
I don’t think the scenarios should be removed, but I dunno, they’re kinda screwy. I mean, it’s cool to see epic battles that sprawl across a countryside while good and evil fight over a city or a keep. That’s how battles work. But it doesn’t really make sense that people magically come back to life over and over to run around fighting over flags, etc. I realize that there’s not a shred of realism to this game, it’s just that the scenarios feel more like a UT deathmatch than the epic struggle that it’s supposed to be.
This is where idrisz’s argument truly falls apart, I’m not surprised he ignored it.
Classes aren’t balanced against their mirrors. Realms are balanced against each other.
What percentage of time do you spend one on one vs a bright wizard, idrisz? If it’s more than 1 or 2 percent you’re either playing with horrible horrible teammates or trying to be rambo as a quishy glass canon.
I don’t bitch about Witch Elves doing significantly more damage than my Witch Hunter, because it’s a group PvP game, and one on one is effectively pointless when team composition is orders of magnitude more important than raw DPS dealt/healed. Especially with all the utility abilities in this game.
MikeJ
2008
I also like scenarios. Sure they have better rewards than RvR, and that is a problem. But they are also relatively balanced, convenient, and everyone has a role to play. These are not problems. I’d rather they do everything they can to make RvR more convenient and fun and rewarding rather than destroying scenarios so that RvR looks better by comparison.
For instance, I participated in the defence of a T3 keep the other day. Sure, I didn’t get much in-game reward for the time invested, but the bigger problem was that I wasn’t having much fun. As a tank, my single piddly range attack couldn’t reach far enough to actually hit anyone from the battlements. The emplaced weapon pads were all in use, and the two that I waited long enough to use didn’t have line of sight to any destro players. Since we were seriously outnumbered, sallying out the door is simply an elaborate form of suicide and standing on the battlements guarding a ranged class is just boring. So I’m basically hoping can finally knock that door down, so I can actually do something.
Now, with better organization or in different circumstances I could have had more fun. I hardly got any rewards for my time, but the main obstacle is that it wasn’t rewarding. Generally, I’ve had a lot more fun in open-field RvR and scenarios.
They may not fit into any sort of world view really well, but that’s true of many things in any MMO or even specific to this one (guild chat, guild hall, monsters reappearing mere minutes after you kill them, poor hapless NPCs who are doomed to stand in one place forever or do the same few actions over and over, etc, etc, etc).
Removing the Scenarios would be a big mistake at this point, as that’s what most people are playing. If you want to fix the balance of people, you fix RvR, not cut back on the fun part. If it wasn’t fun, people wouldn’t be playing them.
HRose
2010
The good recipe is in the balance of the parts: Quests, PQs, Scenarios and Open RvR.
The game is in the best shape when all four options are accessible at all times and comparable in rewards.
Right now:
- PvE Quests yield crap experience, especially in Tier 3 (or so I read)
- PQs don’t have enough players and bag loot should be improved
- Scenarios outbalance everything else, but should be balanced between each other to be more equal in rewards
- Open PvP is non existent and with piss poor rewards
HRose
2011
Scenarios aren’t fun when you repeat the same 40+ times.
With DAoC’s Catacombs expansion it was the same. EVERYONE was in instances that were merely a corridor populated with a row of skeletons. It was STUPID. Ridiculously pointless and dull.
But everyone was there because they gave tons of experience.
Mythic looks at the metrics and sees everyone does Scenarios. So, obviously, People want more Scenarios.
Not.
Y’know, it just wouldn’t be an MMO without you HRose. :P
I do scenarios because it’s a quick in and out way for me to actually do something in the game. Note: Not accomplish something like gaining RP or XP, but do something. Interact with other people, have fun, get a little bit of an adrenaline rush when I’m trying to finish off that last bit of health of someone before I’m squished.
Would it be nice if open-field RvR was like that too? You betcha. But realistically, it’s never going to be as easy to get even sides and fill up the open field as it is to fill up a queue of 12-24 people per side, lock them in a box, and let them steel-cage it out. It’s just a totally different type of problem, one which is far more susceptible to things like class mix, other people’s play schedules, level disparities and the like.
If scenarios gave zero XP and zero RP I’d still queue for them. I don’t know how many others would, but I’d still find them fun in and of themselves. I suspect there’s at least a few folks out there who are like me, since little, lesser known games like CounterStrike and TeamFortress seem to attract a bit of a following based simply on the conflict-based game mechanics without all those fancy XP and RP reward carrots dangling.
Khoram
2013
Yeah I agree, I’m not doing scenarios now because of renown or exp (though obviously I like that I’m getting them), I’m doing them because they are fun, they’re different depending on each side’s class and player make-up, and I feel I can contribute and we start off on even footing - unlike the open world rvr where most of the time order is vastly outnumbered and keep sieges/defenses feel futile. I’m only 21 tho, so have yet to see what the whole t3/Tor Anroc ad infinitum thing is all about (if destro complains about TA so much, why do they keep queueing for it? Everyone says its the only one that pops. But t3 has 2 scen per pairing… do the other 5 scenarios suck or something?).
I don’t want to see anything happen to scenarios (although exp could possibly be tweaked a small fraction downward) - I want to see the other gameplay aspects, especially open rvr, buffed. The stuff they’ve done so far has been mixed - very small bonuses to exp in lakes, then saying no exp for lower levels in the tier… strange way to buff.
skyride
2014
I want more Scenarios, they are fun. It’s like Guild Wars, the reward in GW is pretty minimal (and almost non existent at launch) but still fun to play over and over and try to get win streaks.
skyride
2015
This is what they say:
Today, we launch Phase 2 of this ongoing effort. Players who capture an RvR keep previously received only renown. As of today, players of the appropriate rank (actual, not bolstered) will also earn an experience bonus for successfully defeating a keep lord.
They didn’t actually say that bolstered people won’t get any xp. They just won’t get the bonus. The above statement can be interpreted both ways.
idrisz
2016
Balance by realm is not a good idea, it’s like someone telling me that it’s alright my class sucks, but our mdps is better so order’s RDPS suffer more. so is it ok if Destruction have 1 class almost indestructible, can one shot order class, ability to self heal, but rest of the destruction classes are useless.
if you have 1-2 overpowered class in order to support the shitty class then whats prevent players from just only playing those overpowered class, because almost every scenario I run into at least 3-4 BW, that’s 4 out 12.
so basically you end up with IB/BW/AM on order only, nice realm balance there.
Because then you should start seeing more Witch Elves to eat up all the Bright Wizards. And you’d also see the Destruction Sorceresses running amok with so few MDPS harassing them. In theory, there’s nothing wrong with balancing by realm. It’s difficult in practice, but it isn’t a terrible idea.
That’s just you, I like my sorc just fine, thanks.
Trying to DPS-balance everyone is just stupid.
idrisz
2019
fixed for you.
not sure why you think DPS balance for the dps class is stupid. it makes every dps class viable. Without praying that you have the class A/B/C in your group so you can be playable.
Again, it’s not just about damage. Say your sorc has an AE silence that Bright Wizards don’t have. Or a damage shield. The silence lets your witch elves get the jump on Order casters, and the damage shield keeps them alive long enough to tear through the healers.
Balance is significantly more complex than if the two mirrored sides of a class do exactly the same DPS.
You’re ignoring utility completely. Now if you want to break down how many snares/knockbacks/silences/stuns each realm has you may have something to fall back on. That obviously gets complex, which only shows how silly “BW dps vs Sorc dps” is as a sole meter of balance.
