Warhammer Online: September 18, 2008

[Athryn]

Balance by realm is not a good idea, it’s like someone telling me that it’s alright my class sucks, but our mdps is better so order’s RDPS suffer more. so is it ok if Destruction have 1 class almost indestructible, can one shot order class, ability to self heal, but rest of the destruction classes are useless.

I actually agree with Idrisz here. Mythic was never able to balance all the myriad classes in DAoC, the only thing they ever managed to do was rotate which realm was overpowered at a different time. Mythic is very reactionary when it comes to class balance, and someone always gets a short stick. :\

Blizzard themselves learned this with Paladins and Shamans, and they fixed it by making the sides even and giving both sides all the same classes.

[TriggerHappy]

Because then you should start seeing more Witch Elves to eat up all the Bright Wizards. And you’d also see the Destruction Sorceresses running amok with so few MDPS harassing them. In theory, there’s nothing wrong with balancing by realm. It’s difficult in practice, but it isn’t a terrible idea.

Worked out pretty well for Starcraft.

[idrisz]

Again, it’s not just about damage. Say your sorc has an AE silence that Bright Wizards don’t have. Or a damage shield. The silence lets your witch elves get the jump on Order casters, and the damage shield keeps them alive long enough to tear through the healers.

Balance is significantly more complex than if the two mirrored sides of a class do exactly the same DPS.

You’re ignoring utility completely. Now if you want to break down how many snares/knockbacks/silences/stuns each realm has you may have something to fall back on. That obviously gets complex, which only shows how silly “BW dps vs Sorc dps” is as a sole meter of balance.

Please get your info correct before you saying things you don’t know.

Bright wizard damage shield

Bright Wizard aoe silence

If you want to break down into detail, BW’s aoe silence is instant cast 80ft.
while Sorc get stuck with an aoe silence that’s 2 second cast time 80ft range.

If you have talking about Damage Absorbing shield, but bright wizard have a self Hex removal which is freaking incredible on top of this tactic that also give damage absorb shield, as well as

http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=8184

which is by far one of the best spell for taking out someone important on opposite side, which also kills healer extremely fast, due to the fact that it procs on every tick of a HOT, it can crit for over 500 per healing.

Can you imagine if warrior in wow is given a range Mortal Strike that deal 1/10 of healer’s hp every time he tries to heal the target afflict with mortal strike.

[JM1]

Your class does not suck. Christ.

[mouselock]

Your class does not suck. Christ.

Come now. Over the course of the last few pages, I’ve become convinced that the Sorc. does indeed suck. The obvious solution is for Idrisz to commit virtual suicide by throwing his toon off of a cliff, logging out, deleting the game off the hard drive, canceling his account and microwaving the installation discs. I suggest anyone who would like his stuff contact him before the inevitable occurs.

In the meantime, my BW just got level 20 and will exult in riding around on her pony while killing destroweenies by simply glaring at them with an appropriate level of high damage, 100 ft range menace. As it is now, whenever she runs past a deer, bunny, or sparrow the poor thing instantly bursts into flame. It’s hell on the local fauna, but she’s yet to run out of tasty quick-fried snacks!

[inactive_user]

whenever she runs past a deer, bunny, or sparrow the poor thing instantly bursts into flame.

Selling this perk for $5 a pop would recoup all those millions in sunk dev costs in two weeks.

Just sayin’.

[Andrew]

Selling this perk for $5 a pop would recoup all those millions in sunk dev costs in two weeks.

Actually, a friend of mine who plays the Chaos tank (with the auras) complains that wildlife attacks him wherever he goes. I think due to the auras doing damage to everything or something like that.

[idrisz]

Your class does not suck. Christ.

Does it suck compare Bright Wizard, hell yeah.

Overall a horrible class, probably not, but we are discussing class balance.

It really just come down to comparison for me, I’m playing on destruction because everyone I know and want to play with are on destruction, so Mythic is basically shafting me because my decision to play a class that’s weak on destruction when comparing to a same class on the opposing side.

[EvilIdler]

Get new friends, idrisz.

[Andrew]

It really just come down to comparison for me, I’m playing on destruction because everyone I know and want to play with are on destruction, so Mythic is basically shafting me because my decision to play a class that’s weak on destruction when comparing to a same class on the opposing side.

As others have said, there is more to it than that. Let us consider a hypothetical example. What if Destruction had a class with a power that would instantly kill all Bright Wizards within 200 feet, but Order didn’t have an equivalent to instantly kill all Sorcerers. In that case, 10% damage more or less wouldn’t be a deciding factor in the effectiveness of BWs and Sorcs.

Maybe that doesn’t matter to you. Maybe all you care about is that your DPS cannot be beaten, even if you’d end up dying faster or whatever. That’s fine, but I think a few points here or there doesn’t necessarily imply that the classes are horribly imbalance.

[Damien_Neil]

After lengthy analysis and theoryhammering, I have come to one ineluctable conclusion:

The class I am playing sucks. The class most similar to my class on the the other team is much better. Furthermore, the other classes on my own team all have more interesting gameplay. When it comes time to play in a group the class which I play is picked last, and when it comes time for a battle the class which I play dies first.

When I log out of one character and in as another, the classes are instantly rebalanced so that the class which I am now playing sucks. The class which I used to be playing is now overpowered and the favorite of the devs, who all play it and nothing else. Except when I log back in as that class, in which case they play everything but it.

I am now taking donations. Give me money, and I will agree not to play as your class. Avoid the suck that comes with my class decisions!

[idrisz]

Maybe that doesn’t matter to you. Maybe all you care about is that your DPS cannot be beaten, even if you’d end up dying faster or whatever. That’s fine, but I think a few points here or there doesn’t necessarily imply that the classes are horribly imbalance.

BW can have their 10% extra dps if I have access to their utility spell such as Detonate(without speccing up a tree) or playing with fire, and turn half of our 2 seconds cast spell into instant cast.

Having Instant cast in pvp is great due to Burst damage and Survivability, instead staying in 80 feet range for 2 seconds, you can dart in and out.

having great Witch elf doesn’t win a battle, having multiple great classes do, which Order have, they own Tor Anroc scenario due to IB(not mention it’s the best tank in the game), Superior Aoe damage/Focus fire due to Bright Wizard. Destruction can grab and hold the bauble for entire game and still lose due to the fact IB just aoe knockback player in lava for a guarantee death thus ensure they are always ahead in kill even without the bauble.

[JM1]

Does it suck compare Bright Wizard, hell yeah.

Overall a horrible class, probably not, but we are discussing class balance.

It really just come down to comparison for me, I’m playing on destruction because everyone I know and want to play with are on destruction, so Mythic is basically shafting me because my decision to play a class that’s weak on destruction when comparing to a same class on the opposing side.

Er, no. Your class is weaker in pure DPS to the bright wizard. That’s the ONLY problem.

You’re the one finding this an impossible hurdle to get over.

[Destarius]

fixed for you.

not sure why you think DPS balance for the dps class is stupid. it makes every dps class viable. Without praying that you have the class A/B/C in your group so you can be playable.

You’re obsessed with DPS, really. I play Sorc AND a BW btw, and have never felt my BW was miles better. Scenario-wise my PUG destro team almost always wins. I have never felt my Sorc was underpowered.

[idrisz]

Er, no. Your class is weaker in pure DPS to the bright wizard. That’s the ONLY problem.

You’re the one finding this an impossible hurdle to get over.

then I ask what awesome utility spells sorc have comparable to Playing with Fire???

This is gonna happen for the next couple post, someone probably pop up and make some retarded remake about QQ, and someone will tell me it’s balance by realm, and someone else will point out some skills that sorc have and BW also have and better.

[idrisz]

You’re obsessed with DPS, really. I play Sorc AND a BW btw, and have never felt my BW was miles better. Scenario-wise my PUG destro team almost always wins. I have never felt my Sorc was underpowered.

Yep despite longer cast time and lack of instant cast and damage difference between our skills, and sorc magically does better because you “felt” it’s same.

Thank you for your personal assurance, but I don’t think so. Best part is a BW is telling me sorc isn’t underpowered.

[JM1]

then I ask what awesome utility spells sorc have comparable to Playing with Fire???

This is gonna happen for the next couple post, someone probably pop up and make some retarded remake about QQ, and someone will tell me it’s balance by realm, and someone else will point out some skills that sorc have and BW also have and better.

I simply can’t get through to you. I can’t comprehend why you’re still playing the game, for a start, and I honestly don’t get why your reaction to this isn’t “Well, I hope Mythic balance out the BW a little better” and get on with actually enjoying your really rather powerful class. There’s little wrong with the Sorc, it’s a good bit of design, and it’s a lot of fun.

You’ve put so much energy into complaining about the BW I just don’t believe you’re capable of enjoying something for what it is.

[idrisz]

I simply can’t get through to you. I can’t comprehend why you’re still playing the game, for a start, and I honestly don’t get why your reaction to this isn’t “Well, I hope Mythic balance out the BW a little better” and get on with actually enjoying your really rather powerful class. There’s little wrong with the Sorc, it’s a good bit of design, and it’s a lot of fun.

You’ve put so much energy into complaining about the BW I just don’t believe you’re capable of enjoying something for what it is.

That’s how my thread started, until people trying to tell me that I was wrong and the game is perfectly fine!

[ReptileHouse]

That’s how my thread started, until people trying to tell me that I was wrong and the game is perfectly fine!

Solipsism ftw

[HRose]

The scenarios as Ubiq explained quests in SWG:

In Star Wars Galaxies, I remember, the rewards for killing the flying bat things were better than for everything else (probably had something to do with me being a Master Armorsmith). So because I could choose my own randomly generated quests, I chose the flying bat thing quests every time. Man, I got so sick of killing those, but all of the other content may as well not have existed.

it bears pointing out that most MMOs, rather inadvertently, end up shrinking their own content down in some way. Players are incredibly efficient at finding the fastest way to advance, and designers sometimes accidentally make design and balance decisions that help this along.