1921

wiping the floor on 80% of the server? alliance win 80% of the scenarios due to the fact that they stack only IB/BW/AM.

Why do people tries to tell me that I can overcome my sorc’s inferiority with smart play, when an average BW can easily out dps my sorc just from stacking detonate alone.

Mythic is crazy in thinking balance the sides instead of the classes, because now order players will just flock to the overpowered classes and leave the crappy ones unplayed, and game just becomes not fun when face with 4-5 BW per scenario with the exact same spec, just throwing out detonates.

and now someone is going to tell me Tor Anroc scenario is very fun with 4-5 IBs.

1922

Sorcs generally rock. Look at the numbers in Scenarios (which as I’ve noted above I think provide a very imperfect laboratory for career/realm comparisons), where Sorcs tend to be the consistent high scorers on Destro. I’m pretty convinced that one big reason why BWs seem to be doing better is that for the most part the Order sides I’ve played against are simply more organized. I suspect it has to do with their perceived or real role as underdogs. In EQ2, at the beginning of PvP servers, I was on the Qeynos side and we were vastly outnumbered. When we all hit the level cap we owned Freeport though because we had learned to work together better. Here, because Scenarios are popping all the time, I suspect Order is simply getting their ducks in a row faster.

Of course, Destro will eventually, when people start to really settle in to their characters and the whole RvR picture I think. I’m also sure there will be lots of career tweakage, but the general template seems pretty good. Careers don’t match up 1 to 1 but overall I think the sides are pretty even in theory. Again, the ubiquitousness of Scenarios skews things I think, because I do believe Order is a bit more optimized for shorter more constrained battles–a lot of stuff that Destro can do well really needs longer more flexible encounters I think. That’s just a supposition, though.

All I know is that I like my WE and my Magus, as well as my little WH alt.

1923

I think you’re correct in the limited framework of most Scenarios–the IB/BW/AM combo is too powerful in that environment. But that environment isn’t the whole game, and while I do think Mythic should perhaps look into tweaking things so that people don’t live in Scenarios 24/7, it’s hardly reason to condemn the whole system. Find some Order folks out in the open field and the situation is usually much more balanced.

And this is a team game–it’s not supposed to be about your personnel DPS but about your team’s performance. I know, I know, we’re ALL (me too!) looking at the damn scoreboard, but really, the bottom line should be winning as a team. There’s no way you’re going to equal an equivalent BW in pure numbers, but if you can win the Scenario, who cares?

If you want to complain about something, complain about the way the game focuses too much on just those areas where certain career imbalances have real impact, i.e., the Scenarios.

1924

As we went over yesterday, your mirror class might have some advantages. The mirror class of some other class (cough DoK vs. WP) might have some disadvantages.

I’ve heard that, for example, WE are more deadly than WH from stealth against squishies. There are also differentials due to levels since people get things at different times.

1925

You guys must play on the plebian destro worlds. I get murdered consistently on Phoenix Throne with destro seeming to win about 75+% of the scenarios I see because order doesn’t act cohesively at all, whereas Destro can always be found clustered up, tanks in front, ranged DPS in back, and healers healing. I can’t tell you how frustrated I get watching everyone sit there and pound at the tank wall of Destro while I run around behind and try to actually attack the flanks. Unfortunately I’m a BW, so without support I go squish. When I can do stuff with my guild, it’s different, as we rove together in a clump. Then it’s fun watching the tanks or melee DPS who think we’re easy meat try to cope popping back and forth from me to the AM to me to the AM to dead because they can’t figure out if I’m the threat as DPS or the AM is the threat as healing.

1926

Except scenarios are much more accessable than RVR, I can do pq/quest while queued for scenarios instead running around in RVR looking for that non-existent group or fight.

it’s a team game, and I contribute to the team performance by trying to deal out more damage, which is the exact same role BW is trying to do, except they perform better/faster/safer, nothing like instant cast aoe dot from 100 feet.

1927

Could be worse, you could have chosen a Squig Herder for ranged DPS. This I don’t get. Both the Squig Herder and BW roles are identical, do damage at range. Sure, both have control and minor utility skills, neither better than the other. The huge difference is the DPS one does over the other. BW does no less than 3x the DPS of a Squig Herder, even with the BW backing off from his self immolate mechanic. I don’t get it.

Granted, much of the problems with the SH and SW are their nearly useless pets. Pets are horrible in PVP. They need to fix this.

1928

bad comparison since SH’s mirror suppose to be WL, and Squig herder isn’t as squishy as BW or Sorc.

Pets are extremely annoying in PVP especially when WL sic his pet on me, take forever to channel a spell through.

1929

I’m not sure what I was supposed to get from that other than the Sorc has a tactic that gives them knockback on crits. http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9514

I mean holy hand grenade, you can lock down and damage a healer with that, no problem.

It seemed to me that there were an equal number of awesome skills. The Sorc seems to have all sorts of extremely badass group support skills (20 seconds of 20% less damage TO YOUR ENTIRE GROUP from a rank 2 morale ability: http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=9537), and in group focused play that counts for more than a piddling advantage in damage in some skills.

I guess sorcs just aren’t intended to be solely damage dealers, unlike BWs.

1930

Squig Herder’s mirror is Shadow Warrior, not White Lion. White Lion is mirrored by the Marauder.

1931

I really don’t see how you can lock down a healer with crit on “Path of Destruction spell”,

Almost all of our destruction spell is either PBAOE = I’m dead, Short Range Aoe in a line = most likely Dead or Channel AOE = walk around the void zone .

Or normal long range Aoe usually are 80 feet instead 100 which put us in range of all spell caster and archers, plus usually 2-3 seconds of cast time.

1932

After playing for ~2 weeks I’ve grown to love WHO, as it’s the only game to take me away from WoW for any amount of time the past ~3 years. But there’s a severe design flaw that may kill this game if they don’t make a huge change soon, and that’s the amount of XP/RP you get from Scenarios is taking away all of the RVR action.

The L40s in my guild say they pretty much just play Scenarios because, one, they get way more Renown XP. Two, they think Order doesn’t have enough higher level players to participate in the RVR areas, where no one is around.

To be honest, I would have preferred WHO not to have ANY Scenarios at all, and offered more rewards for RVR. I doubt that’s an optin at this point, although the devs did ask if anyone was interested in playing on a server that didn’t have Scenarios. What else can they do? There’s a long list of reasons players aren’t participating in RVR on the Warhammer Alliance forums, all of them valid.

I REALLY hope the devs come up with something that gets players to want to participate in RVR. I have the most fun in PQs that are located between Order and Destruction War Camps, where both sides are fighting over the area. This is how the RVR should have been implemented. Every zone should have had a RVR area between the 2 War Camp in an area, with a very large XP/RP/Gear incentive to participate, and some compensation for unequal sides; something along the line of their bolstering feature. They wouldn’t even have needed Scenarios.

/rant

1933

I’m on Iron Rock and when I looked at the server listing a week or so ago, it was “med” for both Order and Destruction. So, yeah, my server is definitely not the norm in that both sides are pretty balanced in terms of numbers. Or so it would appear at that one point in time.

I just joined a guild on my server, probably one of the top 3 for Order, and the difference is literally night and day. For T3 (Tor Anroc or Isle of Isha scenarios typically) I would be on a team that won 25% of the time before. Now, when rolling with guildies (about 3 to 4 on average) we win 90-95% of the time. Honestly. I’m finally get healed and rezzed. I fight and pull back more strategically since I know I’m going to get healed and then redo Incognito to throw down Burn Armor or (soon) Fanatical Zeal, rinse, repeat. I also don’t want my guild’s healers getting angry that they’re spending 90% of their AP on me.

As a result of these heals, I’ll run back and help out our casters/healers since I know them by name and realize they’re keeping me alive. The team work makes a huge difference.

Tor Anroc for example: even if my team doesn’t grab the Brimstone Bauble first, we stand a good chance of taking it back and winning in the end. We’ll sit on our side of the slope leading up to the bauble and pick them off one at a time until they’re spread thin with respawns. Then we’ll run in, finish off the stragglers, take the bauble and hold back.

I’m constantly checking on our bauble bro, seeing if a Witch Elf or Maurader isn’t trying to sneak around or if he’s being focus fired and I need to retarget on a caster instead of a healer or tank. I never thought this much about my teammates before in scenarios or RvR.

Basically, long story short, it’s about organization. Playing scenarios with pick-up groups is frustrating because nobody is communicating and if they are it’s useless generic advice like “OMG take out the healers!” or “we need to stick together!” I can’t blame most people though since typing while trying to fight is impossible and only guildies will have Vent going.

1934

Sure it is. I’m just saying that on my server, on average, Destro is more organized by far than order. There also seems to be a lot less independent thought capable. Example: 5 people spawn together, you see the WH and BW head off together to flank the enemy. Do you:

a) Follow them to support them and roll as a cohesive unit?
b) Head directly into the middle of the tank-fest scrum you see from where you are for the “ZOMG mad RP!”

If you’re order on Phoenix Throne, the answer is clearly b. I would argue if you have a bit of a tactical mind at all (and like your RP!) you should do a instead, because plowing high damage with support classes into the soft back-side of the destro tank formation is going to be more effective than going head first into their tanks, plus the people at the back protected by the tanks have likely not seen as much death as recently as the focus-fired tanks, so will be worth non-reduced renown. This is apparently far too high level thought for the masses, though. Maybe there’s just a lot more structured organization on destro side on our server (this is possible given that it was a pre-release server so lots of the rolling DAoC guilds would have chosen one of these servers) but it sure makes a huge difference in what I see when I play since my guild has rather atrophied over where we’d expected it to be.

I still think if the deciding factor in any of the battles is organization above all else that the overall balance is fine. It may not be 100% even, but if you can nearly universally guarantee that the better organized, better group-performing team wins, it seems good enough to me.

1935

They’ve announced a big increase in world XP and in XP gains from lake RVR.

idrisz: This is not a 1v1 game. Relax. You’re still the best DPS class on your entire team.

1936

I thought +50% exp from world RVR was in the last patch?

And yeah, sorc may be slightly underpowered compared to BW, but they still seem better off than half of the destruction classes. I think I’ve seen squig herder top damage once out of all the scenarios I’ve ever played.

1937

why are you keep telling me I’m the best dps class on my entire team, when I should have comparable dps to a bright wizard?

Or are you implying I should be happy gimped along with rest of destruction classes?

1938

As someone commented somewhere else: +50% to nothing is still nothing.

In open RvR you don’t respawn 5 seconds from the action, nor you have the same frequency of kills. In order to balance it with just direct kill points they would need to put the bonus at 500% if not more.

Yesterday I was in a tier 2 full warband for half an hour. The experience bar didn’t move. And I’m even on a server with the 20% bonus. So 70% in total, and yet nothing at all.

People obviously left, and went grinding scenarios again.

1939

Are there any Tier 2 RVR quests besides scout each objective? Seems like T1 had a few (grab the mead, light the buildings on fire, etc.) but then T2 had nothing. That would help encourage people to go out there a bit.

1940

You won’t get any argument from me. What you described is definitely the prevailing thought pattern for solo players in scenarios. And to be fair, we get rolled still sometimes, but even then you can have some fun.

I was playing Isle of Isha and there was just no way we were going to win. There was a fellow guild healer on my team, but that was it in terms of teamwork. As a result we decided to go around the side and managed to take out 3 guys in the back near the flag before going down. It was great even though the lack of coordination as a whole sucked.