1941

Well then I guess you’ll have to find a healer to keep you up. And maybe a couple of tanks to support you. And maybe some melee range dps to keep the enemy tied down while you aoe knockback their entire team.

I mean, I guess I must just be crazy to think that yes, you should require some support if you’re going to get to use a bunch of aoe skills that can cause knockback on crit to an entire team on a class that gets a +50% chance to crit. I think that most people would agree that you needing a little bit of support to pull that off is reasonable. Don’t like it? Roll a tank class and enjoy the non-stop roots of t3/t4!

1942

and yet, why doesn’t BW need to same “support” I need to do anything of those things you just said?

everyone look at the 50% crit and ignore the fact that 50% of the time you get hit by a backlash does a % of max health not base.

1943

The BW has nothing like the sorc ability to knockback an entire team off of five skills, a couple of which are instant cast and all of which have short recharges. Zip nada nothing. The BW cannot do anything like this.

1944

Ditto. I was doing T3 keep defense a few days ago with 2 full warbands against 2 full destro warbands. It was a ton of fun, but I got zilch RP and XP for an hour or two of play.

1945

Don’t you get a chunk of renown per “tick” if you are fighting in the objective zone?

1946

except almost every spells they have is either instant cast + aoe + do more damage.

As well as a trump card with playing with fire that reduce healing effectiveness on target by -50% as well as deal tons of damage to whomever trying to heal the target, which I might add is instant cast as well, which is insane in taking out healers.

Aoe knock back does 0 damage, as well the knockback is extremely short often knocking the target out of your casting range, 5 skills you listed are short to point blank range which only is suicide to a caster like sorcerer who takes tons of damage from everything else on top of massive backlash.

even the very basic skills like word of pain vs boiling blood.

Word of pain have to cast 3 times in a row in order to deal slightly more damage than boiling blood, except Boiling blood with one cast debuff target’s corporeal resistance which is by itself increase damage target takes from BW by 30-40%. not mentioning with 3 cast of Word of pain, the likelihood that Sorc will suffer 1-2 backlash which isn’t even worth it to cast Word of pain.

Ice spike vs Detonate is a fucking joke, ice spike does 560 over 15 seconds, it’s line aoe that only goes 65 feet, while detonate is a target aoe dot that deal by itself over 900+ damage to a target over 9 seconds, on top of that dealing 744 damage to enemies around your target.

1947

Just noticed now in the other window.

Putting up a warband to conquer an objective in open RvR: yelds no experience. Zero. Nada.

Just 300 renown + another 300 after defending. No xp.

1948

http://www.wardb.com/search.aspx?browse=6.1.24#spells:0-3+4

Half of them are 80 foot range, half of them are instant cast. If you don’t think knockback, or snares in general, are incredibly powerful, you’re smoking something. You can have, at full Dhar, a greater than 50% chance of knocking back (meaning disabling for 3 seconds) everything inside a massive aoe from a long distance away.

Say, for instance, you’ve got a bunch of melee dps in your grill. You hit your instacast 65ft range cone effect spell and suddenly half are gone. You hit your pbaoe, another half are gone. You root the rest, cast your morale ability that reduces all incoming damage by 20%, and then you go to town. If they come back, you can just blast them some more since your skills that are most effective against melee (your pbaoe and your cone) are both instant cast and short/no cooldown.

Or say you want to get the enemy backline to collapse so that your team can roll up their frontliners? Blast em with your 80ft range skills – it only takes one or two hits to knock back a fucktruck of their team.

And it’s not like you’re alone. Imagine three or four sorcs casting with the knockback tactic on. Starting to sound a little overpowered yet?

Look, maybe you’re used to playing games like WoW where you think only in terms of how much damage you can put out. In better games, disabling the enemy character even for a short period of time is far more important than your raw damage output. In Guild Wars, the most important condition was knockdown because it prevented the enemy from doing anything. The same is going to be true of knockdown and knockback in WAR. The sorceress has the ability to disrupt entire teams of enemy players. Again and again and again. That’s absurd!

Sure, you might not rack up the high damage numbers of the BW. But who gives a giggly fuck? You can heal through damage, but there isn’t anything you can do about being flung through the air.

1949

I couldn’t agree more. The incentive needs to receive a HUGE boost along the lines of your suggestion, or more, and some gear rewards that are only tied to RVR. Right now, Scenarios are infinity easier and more beneficial than RVR, for these reasons:
[ul]
[li]Scenarios can be joined anywhere ; RVR must be found and there’s no mechanism for finding where RVR action is
[/li][li]Scenarios have bonus XP quest rewards that are repeatable ; RVR only has kill 15 <race> quests
[/li][li]Scenarios are balanced ; RVR isn’t and that REALLY dissuades players from even trying
[/li][li]Scenarios have a definitive win/loss condition ; Most (All?) RVR objectives never end
[/li][li]In the time spent RVR’ing, you can gain 10,000x the XP/RP doing Scenarios
[/li][/ul]

I really wish Scenarios didn’t exist in WHO. :|

1950

haha hit my instant cone aoe? it’s not a cone, it’s LINE, I said it like 10 times already, not a cone! next you going to tell me I should ask the nice tanks to line themself up for me too.

except you also forgot that in War, you can block spells on top of disrupt, and knockback isn’t a disable, you can use instant ability while flying in the air, so basically I hit my instant 65, I maybe get 1-2, and I take a backlash that’s around 1/5 of my health, and sent one of them flying away.
I wait 1.4 seconds of global cool down, hit my PBaoe, and hopefully send 1-2 flying away.
wait 1.4 seconds now I hit aoe root which probably cause another backlash, what bring me down to 3/5 hitpoint plus whatever range dps is throwing at me.
I use my rank 2 morale bonus, and I take 20% less damage, and trying to limp out of there because I’m most likely snared, makes about 4 steps and I be dead.

so I did a whooping 600+ damage to about 4 tanks. Great tactic!!

I like how you said I go to town, with what? my 3 second aoe nuke or spam more low damage instant pbaoe with that nice 1.4 second global cool and cause more backlash so I can take more damage.

the whole thing is that you can’t heal through how fast a few BW can damage a group with multiple detonate and playing with fire, it’s impossible, you can get playing with fire with 6 spec point… that’s how low requirement it is, every single BW I played against have it.

The best part is that it’s long range, instant cast and low risk of a burn out.

1951

WTH were the Devs thinking?? I somehow wonder if they experienced the same, very difficult to address, RVR MMO problem that WoW went through. Our servers and the clients machines can’t handle a battle with more than ~100 players. This is still the biggest pitfall of World PVP/RVR. I’m not sure there’s a solution other than something similar to what City of Heroes did with it’s dynamic instanced city feature.

1952

Oh, dear God.

Destruction is not “gimped”. This is ridiculous. Your mirror class happens to be better than you at the moment.

I keep telling you you’re the highest DPS class on your side because you keep talking about rerolling something else. Why? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I honestly think you should calm down a bit.

1953

I love my sorc, and I don’t even have the aoe knockback yet. I regularly out-damage BW’s in scenarios. Do they outdamage me perhaps a bit more often? Yeah, probably. Do I really care? Nope.

I’m not interested in being a king of 1v1 combat against ranged dps. If I wanted that, I’d be playing a Witch Elf and making the lives of casters miserable.

I am interested in being able to support my team and significantly contribute to accomplishing our mutual goals, be they taking a keep, holding a flag, or whatever. My Sorc is very, very good at that.

1954

I’m very calm actually. I want to reroll something else because playing Sorc vs BW isn’t fun!.

Playing WE vs BW probably be extremely fun :) for me anyways.

the problem I have is with the game balance, not with BW. I probably just quit and go back playing wow or something else but considering I’m in a gaming forum with fellow gamer or game developer I just want to bring this fact up that Mythic can’t balance classes they couldn’t in DAOC and they can’t now.

1955

Go back to WoW because you want balanced PvP…

Excuse me a moment, I need to go clean this up. I just spewed coffee all over my screen when I read that…

1956

But you’re not playing Sorc vs BW because this simply isn’t a 1v1 game aaaaaaaaaaargh

1957

I can’t argue with you about the differences between a Bright Wizard and a Sorcerer. I haven’t played either so I have no idea what issues you’re having. However, I have to repeat what everyone else is saying, seriously, when do you ever really have 1V1 battles?

For me it doesn’t happen that often. Either it’s a giant battle or it’s obvious you’re outnumbered. People are healing each other, people are ganging up on others or focus firing. Even as a witch hunter it’s pretty rare I solo a Destro player - maybe a caster/healer by themselves or a Marauder/Witch Elf here and there, but it’s uncommon. I really believe you’re viewing things differently than the game designers intended.

I’m told all the time how the Witch Elf does way more damage than me, a Witch Hunter. But you know what? I just don’t care. I’m having fun and playing within the confines of my role and maximizing it’s potential by realizing that. I get a fair number of kills, but I’ll never compete with Bright Wizards or Iron Breakers. And that’s OK because I’m still having fun and there are a lot of great experiences to be had in the small moments that contribute to the whole.

1958

FWIW, my sorc wakes up screaming in the middle of the night because of witch hunters.

1959

I pretty much like playing all the classes I’ve played. though in some cases (Magus, Squig Herder for instance) it is sometimes hard to figure out exactly what the developers want you to do to maximize their potential. The Magus is a bit easier to figure out, but I agree the SH seems to lack too much DPS to be truly viable right now in a lot of cases. Then again, I’ve seen comparably leveled SHs top SWs in a few cases, so go figure.

I’ll reiterate though that for me the number one issue is getting people out of scenarios and into world RvR. I’m as guilty as anyone, because that huge exp+renown reward for fifteen minutes or less of your time is too tasty. Open field RvR and even sieges are much more fun though, but they have to give you more incentive. I was in a T3 siege the other day for over two hours and got nada out of it–a few RPs and barely any exp. In the same time period I could have scored a half level in scenarios. That’s totally whack.

1960

you may want to see a doctor if you randomly spew stuff out your mouth.

didn’t I mention anywhere about wow have balanced PVP?

I’m talking about misplaced expectation in a game that should be balanced towards pvp.

You can defend this game because you are having fun, or who cares about balance as long as you are fun, but as a sorc, I expect that I can dish out equivalent damage as BW due to the same game mechanic, except I can’t, and now people tell me I shouldn’t complain because I’m still the top DPS on my side, but suggest I focus on Group support instead dps?

Are sorc DPS or Group Support? and what does Sorc rank top as DPS on Destruction side have to do with class balance between 2 mirror class?