Watch out for the 6 year old sexual harasser!

In yet another instance of political correctness gone wild, articles here and here and here talk about how a 6 year old child was suspended for sexual harassment.

Details are somewhat sketchy, but what is reported is that the kids were playing and the girl pushed the boy and then he pushed her back, and in doing so his hand ended up under her shirt, inside the waist band of her pants and touching her skin.

At first I thought there must be some history with the kid of behavioral issues, but there aren’t any - the school pretty much confirms the story, but without any details.

Is it me, or is the attribution of adult sexual mores to a first grader just wrong? If he was being sexually abused at home, you might see some ‘sexual acting out’ but that isn’t what is at issue here.

Mike

It’s just the inevitable absurdity that results from “tried as an adult,” i.e. the attribution of adult criminal intent and adult motives to children.

Especially funny is the fact the “sexual harasser” is too young to be prosecuted even as a juvenile, though the childcare-concerned staff at this school district made sure to try.

Actually, had he been 7 he would have been ‘prosecuted’.

Mike

Or maybe, just maybe, he was doing something freaky. You did notice that the only person who talked in that article was his mother? That’s hardly an unbiased source and she certainly wasn’t a witness Why do people always assume that if something like this occurs, the teacher and principal must be at fault. I would think for them to go with this sort of decision that he would have a history of low-level harrasment. But hey, let’s go with the mother’s story- she’d know what he does at school!

If you don’t think that kids can get up to wierd shit, wait until you are a parent.
My 6 year old has a few stories about a girl who invented a game which involves her being chased and then upon getting caught, kissing her captor’s penis. It makes for a good conversation at dinner when your son pipes up 'Mum, do you know what a ‘gina is? I saw one today.’ Quite a few parents have registered their concern about her. I don’t think that she’s an abuse victim, rather, she’s a very physical and extroverted girl who thrives on naughtiness.

That is something that bugs me. Thing is, from talking to school people, they cannot do this stuff in a vacuum so if it were hitting or pulling hair, it would be procedure to go through warnings and intervention and get the parents involved early. For anything ‘sexual’, however, there are uniform rules that impact all grades - so it doesn’t matter if it is a 18 year old who actually is sexually harassing someone or 5 year old trying to give someone a wedgie … and there is a ‘zero tolerance’ rule.

As the father of 2nd and 3rd grade boys, I know the stuff that can happen. The first day of my older son’s kindergarten, my son’s friend aske

That girl is messed up, and has knowledge of inappropriate things beyond her years enough to place them in a context, and use them. She is messed up and needs help now.

Mike

There’s a difference between “freaky” and “sexual harassment,” which is a pretty specific term. There’s sexual acting out, as mentioned, but even then it’s often done in ignorance of the adult motives and intents usually involved in such behavior: it’s often the ignorant emulation of something seen, intending to shock, or, sometimes, the result of being abused by adults. The idea that 6 year olds are able to understand the concept of “sexual harassment,” let alone do it, seems pretty unproven to me.

Why do people always assume that if something like this occurs, the teacher and principal must be at fault.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to fault them if indeed they have accused a first grader of an adult sex crime, suspended him from school without any proof of the sexual nature of the crime, explicitly refused to cite which part of their policies on sexual harassment were contravened, and for apparently attempting to have the child prosecuted.

My 6 year old has a few stories about a girl who invented a game which involves her being chased and then upon getting caught, kissing her captor’s penis.

This is indeed weird shit that needs to be looked at pretty closely, but it is not predatory, self-aware sexual misconduct of the kind implied by legal-currency phrases like ‘harassment.’ It’s not even clear in this case if what the boy did was actually sexual, because the school district won’t say what part of their policies he broke. It’s almost as if we’re being asked to preemptively assume that the boy’s touching the girl’s skin underneath a garment is not only intrinsically sexual, but sexually harassing.

One problem may be with the legal term not reflecting the nature of the offense. I’m not a lawyer, but I briefly touch on (adult) sexual harassment in some of the classes I teach. There are three forms of behavior that are classified as sexual harassment, and one (gender harassment) doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with sexual behavior. If you make generally degrading or hostile comments about women (or men) as a group, you could be charged with sexual harassment, even though more properly you were harassing based on gender, not sexuality.

I don’t feel as if I have enough information to make any judgment about this case. It may be that the school system or state modified the gender harassment type for kids to include touching or shoving another child simply because “she’s a girl.” I know some districts are taking a tough stand on bullying, and this situation gets a fancy name because the bullying is based on gender. Honestly, we don’t know what led to the suspension, but in my experience:

a) School administrators aren’t looking for ways to call attention to their schools; they generally just want to get through the week with no lawsuits and with all children safe and accounted for. My instinct tells me this kid was known to school officials before this incident.
b) Parents are not reliable sources of information regarding their children when someone other than the parent accuses his or her kid of somethiing negative.

Oh, for the love of Christ.

Absolutely moronic.

Dude, until they’re well into puberty, and sometimes not even then, kids don’t know sexuality from Wagner. So to talk about what he did in terms of “sexual harassment,” or anything even remotely related to sex, is simply idiocy run out of control. No kid under the age of, say, 10, knows the difference between “sexual touching” and “non-sexual touching.” Even if you teach it to them, they don’t get it. Even when a dirty old man violates a 2-year-old, the 2-year-old doesn’t know that the Big Giant Evil Man was sexually abusing her; she just knows he did something that hurt like hell, like repeatedly getting stabbed by a knife, which is more than traumatizing enough for anyone that age.

As the mother says, the boy doesn’t even know what the word “sexual” means. And the girl kissing boys’ penises doesn’t know there’s anything sexual about it. She may have spotted her parent/parents doing something they should have been more discreet about, but she doesn’t know there’s anything sexual about it; it’s just play.

Even young teens don’t know shit. Boobies are just something boys want to grab, but they don’t know if they want it for milk or for foreplay yet, and most of 'em won’t grow up to know anything about foreplay, either. Masturbation is just an easy way to have fun. And girls, who are supposedly maturing earlier, are even less clueful, most of them not even understanding masturbation (or how to masturbate!) until they’re in their twenties. If they start fucking in their mid-teens, it’s rarely because they enjoy sex, because women are far too complicated to grasp what it takes to enjoy their sexuality as a mere 14, 15, 16, 17 year old.

The median age at which a girl or woman knows what the fuck is going on is somewhere around 23, and not one month earlier. And for men, I’d say no earlier than 26. I don’t care how much exposure you’ve had to sex on TV, movies or on the internet; this is about how you understand yourself and what your body’s telling you; since everyone’s different, seeing, reading or hearing about it somewhere else doesn’t accelerate this process one damned bit.

Each paragraph slightly beyond the one before, so you’re not sure exactly where that went into crazytown.

Dude, the two six year olds could have gone into the closet, stripped and had vaginal intercourse and to them, it wouldn’t be any more sexual than if they had walked into the field, put on a wool sweaters and he stuck his finger in her ear. Other than all of the Adults telling them they shouldn’t and acting all weird about it, they don’t know what the big deal is.

Yeah, maybe so, but that’s your first paragraph. But maybe I don’t know what the fuck I’m talking about, since I’m only 26, and the Adults have intimidated me. Certainly my girlfriend thinks so…

You’re 26. You ought to have figured it out by now.

Guys aren’t all that difficult to figure out. Woo, lookit this, if you rub it enough goo comes out! And it feels really good!

Girls are a bit more complicated than that.

The lag between girls figuring themselves out and guys figuring themselves out is not due to guys being that dense, but rather due to the time it takes, once girls have figured themselves out, for guys to figure out what to do with a girl who knows what she fucking wants (or wants from fucking, more accurately). Some guys get lazy and stick to teeny-boppers, or earlier kids, and that’s the Sick Fuck.

See with the sick fucks it’s not the bareass pussy or the flat chest that turns 'em on. Most chicks shave now anyhow, and there’s plenty of asian pussy for no tits. It’s the control, the power, the fact that the chicks don’t know shit. It’s ultimately down to laziness: I don’t know how to score with a woman, but girls haven’t got a clue, so I can score with them. I think this mentality drives some folk to homosexuality that wouldn’t otherwise; it’s a lot easier to understand your own kind than the other kind. If you’re a gay guy and want to get your rocks off, you can pretty much just find another horny gay guy who isn’t disgusted with you and proceeding from that point is trivial.

I’m hypothesizing, of course, since I’m neither a pedophile nor a homosexual. Of course I’ll piss off all the homosexuals for suggesting that their attraction for the same gender is ultimately based in being too lazy to try to figure out the other sex, but it doesn’t matter, because nobody really understands why one person wants to fuck horses while playing the Star Spangled Banner on a banjo and the other wants to have straight anal sex exclusively with white blond divorcées named Betty. So you may be pissed off, but you certainly can’t prove me wrong.

And I probably put the accent mark on the wrong “e” there, but I don’t care about that, either. Well, maybe I care a little. At least grammar is somewhat defined, unlike sexuality.

Even if we have education that really tries to help people understand their own sexuality (we don’t, we haven’t, it doesn’t exist – well, maybe in literature class but for chrissakes our literature is based on the English language, which of course comes from England, which is a land full of quite possibly the second most sexually-repressed people on Earth, so outside of “Lady Chatterly’s Lover” what the fuck is there that even bothers with the issue?) you can’t accelerate understanding of oneself that much. And our culture isn’t going to try.

So if we really put the age of statutory rape at the age where people understand what they’re getting into, you end up putting it where the bulk of the population is too damned old to raise kids anyhow, and the whole culture dies in the next generation, because there isn’t any next generation. But we can’t lower it below 18 because then all of those SICK FUCKS! graduating highschool without their virginity (God forbid!) would be doing it legally! gasp!!! And we just can’t have that happen.

My God, and to think I once finger-banged a 15-year-old in the back of my Camaro when I was 17. It’s amazing I don’t have to report my presence to federal, state and local authorities, along with all of my neighbors.

I remember the time clearly because I’d read about sex, and I’d read it was all about understanding and communication. And so I kept asking her where she liked to be touched, and she said “anywhere.” Complete lack of communication, because she was thinking I was asking for permission, but what I really needed was a foreplay roadmap.

You’re laughing right now (and probably phoning the authorities), but you recognize in that little snippet just what I’m saying: Teenagers don’t know shit. And no one does until their mid-20s, in my experience. Ten years from now, you’ll look back on what that nutsack Rimbo said on the P&R board and think, “Hey, he had a point there. He was fucked in the head, but he may have been onto something.”

Allright, fuck it all, I should go do some work.

One paragraph at a time!

Nicely put. This is very true. At age 5, doctor was just a game Heather and I played when we got tired of playing with dolls. She had a fisher price stethoscope and everything. Do “grown-ups” just not remember what it is like to be a kid? Do they forget their thought processes?

Zero tolerance is stupid. I have near zero-tolerance for zero-tolerance. It’s all about CYA. No one wants to be responsible for making decisions.

Yeah, it’s pretty crazy to think of a six year old as sexually active. Do any of you know any six year olds?

I was under the impression that zero-tolerance was always about trying to eliminate legal liability. Has that changed over the years, to where some people now view ‘zero tolerance’ as somehow related to justice?

You guys are mostly right, but I have a comment to make. Very young kids know there is something ‘naughty’ about sex-type stuff ie. genitals. I sincerely doubt there would be many kids as oblivious as the ones in Rimbo’s example. Hell, the girl in the story sure didn’t like to be touched even in the rough vicinity of her naughty place.

Of course, the punishment is completely stupid and it looks like it was an accident anyways. So what the fuck?

Why don’t you leave that shit in Thailand, freako.

You guys are mostly right, but I have a comment to make. Very young kids know there is something ‘naughty’ about sex-type stuff ie. genitals. I sincerely doubt there would be many kids as oblivious as the ones in Rimbo’s example. Hell, the girl in the story sure didn’t like to be touched even in the rough vicinity of her naughty place.

Well that’s largely because of the 8 gazillion ultra-sensitive nerves in there that require being touched in just the right way to feel good.

And as for the kids feeling a certain way about it, it’s only because – as I said – adults, by word and deed, have passed along that it’s VERY IMPORTANT that that area ALWAYS BE COVERED and that you’re NEVER to talk or do anything with it or BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN.

If parents don’t exactly enforce these ideas the way the puritans in the US do, kids don’t know there’s anything to care about. It’s all learned. Only much, much later does it gain any meaning.

I don’t see what difference it makes. Most young kids know that area is verboten. They pick it up. Learned behaviour. But fooling around down there when you weren’t invited is bad behaviour and should be punished or corrected or whatever. Not sure if that applies in this case. Mutual sexual exploration is another thing, and is sort of sweet - though I’m not sure how I’d react if I saw my kid doing it.
I remember when I was a wee thing (around 8) when a boy a couple years my junior repeatedly grabbed my eight year old penis while giggling like a maniac and he totally shouldn’t have done that. I remember not being angry, but I very earnestly told him to stop otherwise he MIGHT BECOME GAY.
Also: Sexuality is so fucked lol that I’m not even sure you can seperate the learned from the biological. It’s really hard to know