My personal theory is they believe everyone is responsible enough to make rational decisions “in time” (which is BS) or they’re in pure denial.
I think it’s simple. They plan on being dead before everything goes to shit.
See the post above yours.
Also, we’ve already discussed how some of those things you listed (like “cutting education spending”) is based entirely upon a flawed understanding of what happened.
Yeah. They diverted that education funding into charter schools, which are just going gangbusters.
No, that is not correct either.
Seriously, we’ve been over this before. Do I need to break it down again?
Conservatives generally have more parochial empathy. If you’re not immediate family or perhaps neighbor, they don’t give a shit what happens to you. So the humans who will eventually inherit whatever is left here don’t matter at all.
The money cut wasn’t diverted into ECOT, it was simply cut from the budgets. ECOT made it’s money by taking students from the various districts, enrolling them in the program, and then charging the district and the state for that student’s education. Since ECOT was supposed to provide each student a computer and internet access in their home, the charge was substantially more than what the student would have cost the district.
Problem is, a very large percentage of students enrolled in ECOT never actually participated fully in the program, and many never even received the computers or internet access they needed to do so, yet somehow they all “logged in” for at least one minute per month, which is all that was needed to qualify them as an attending student and generate the income for the charter system.
ECOT was a giant fraud. Over $150 million was diverted from the ECOT charter school organization to shell companies owned by the people who managed it and was written off as “administrative and consulting fees”, meanwhile, thousands of students were not being served. The intent was never to educate, but to steal, plain and simple. Sadly, ECOT is not alone in this, as many charter school organizations are structured the same way, siphon off that public money to private companies while using the students as a means to an end. This guy just found a way to do it without actually needing students to show up at an actual school.
And the Ohio GOP knew all about it, and allowed it to continue for YEARS. From the article:
The party of Family Values ladies and gentlemen, enriching their donors (and thus themselves) at the expense of the very children they claim to hold so dear.
Charter schools CAN work, but only when run with careful oversight by people dedicated to assisting the type of children whom the schools benefit. Charter schools are NOT a replacement for public schools, and the Betsy DeVos brand of charter school would only further the cause of the GOP by making rich white people richer and keeping poor people down.
Found my candidate:
(edit: just in case - not serious.)
Apologies, I definitely missed the silliness!
Jason Kander did an event at Dartmouth this week. Which is in New Hampshire. Which I’m sure is just a coincidence.
Would be an improvement on Trump.
To be clear here, this is not suggesting that Kasich could be a Dem candidate. I find that preposterous. This is just a correction of a misconception some folks have.
Ok, I’m gonna correct the record on this, again.
What Kasich did was not cut funding for schools. Schools got MORE funding under his watch.
What happened was that he vetoed a specific provision, PUT IN BY REPUBLICANS, which attempted to make it such that rich districts got an equal share of educational funding.
Kasich cut this, because rich districts don’t need increased funding. Rich public school districts do fine, because they are funded by local property taxes from rich people.
Instead, state level funding needs to be targeted at POOR districts, which can’t carry themselves on their own, and which have incresed demands due to other issues like lack of parental involvement.
What Kasich did was by no means “ultra conservative” in this regard. If anything, this could be seen as a progressive move, although I’d simply describe it as pragmatic. The “huge cut to educational spending” is derived from the difference in spending on education if they continued to funnel all that money into the rich districts at the same level, vs. what they did after the veto. But that’s totally disingenuous.
Again, this was not a conservative action, it was merely a pragmatic action. It was the type of thing done by a guy who actually knows how to make budgets work, in that he said, “Rich people don’t need more money given to them, and we need to make cuts, so that’s gonna be where we cut it.”
Kasich is largely demonized by both sides. From the GOP because he is not a dogmatic zombie who tows the party line no matter what, and from the Left because he’s a popular moderate who can threaten them in a general election.
But guess what? Those folks are mainly just LYING to you. The folks on the left are lying to you too, and just repeating those lies is doing yourself a disservice.
Stop. He’s not a fucking moderate. This has been explained over and over.
I mean, you like his politics. Great. That doesn’t make him a moderate.
Yes dude, he is. Your perception otherwise is based on misconceptions, combined with your being extremely far to the left.
Kasich has pushed key tenets of corporate school reform:
*expanding charter schools — even though the state’s charter sector is the most troubled in the country
*increasing the number of school vouchers that use public money to pay for tuition at private schools, the vast majority of them religious — even though state officials say that fewer than one-third of those available were used by families this past school year
The above sounds pretty much like the GOP line to me. How is that not being ultraconservative?
Meanwhile, the Ohio Education Department in Kasich’s administration is in turmoil. David Hansen, his administration’s chief for school choice and charter schools resigned over this past weekend after admitting that he had unilaterally withheld failing scores of charter schools in state evaluations of the schools’ sponsor organizations so they wouldn’t look so bad. (Hansen’s wife, incidentally, is Kasich’s chief of staff, who is taking a leave from that post to work on his campaign.)
Under his watch, funding for traditional public schools — which enroll 90 percent of Ohio’s students — declined by some half a billion dollars, while funding for charter schools has increased at least 27 percent, with charters now receiving more public funds from the state per student than traditional public schools, according to the advocacy group Innovation Ohio.
More pro-charter school bullshit. He’s pro-charter school - I don’t see any evidence to the contrary. In fact:
Ohio has quadrupled the number of available vouchers and increased the number of schools whose students are eligible for vouchers.
he said, “Rich people don’t need more money given to them, and we need to make cuts, so that’s gonna be where we cut it.”
I can’t find your quote from Kasich anywhere - is that paraphrasing something he said elsewhere? You’re basically saying FAKE NEWS about Kasich & education but it’s clear he favors charter schools over public schools and that appears to be where his focus lies.
Being pro-charter school is not “ultra-conservative”. It’s a conservative position, but it’s not ULTRA conservative.
I think this is a key point that folks need to kind of try to get their heads around. You guys all realize that you are, for the most part, pretty far to the left, right? Your positions are not “moderate”. And as a result, anything to the right of you is gonna be conservative compared to your positions. But that does not mean it is all maximally conservative.
You want an “ultra conservative”? You can look at someone like Ted Cruz. Or some of those nuts in the midwest like Steve King. Are you folks all able to recognize the difference there between those guys and Kasich? How he’s clearly not even remotely as far to the right as they are?
Things like his abortion position, as an example. Kasich is anti-abortion… but you realize that tons of people are? Being pro abortion is not the “normal” position. Kasich vetoed a 6 week ban (which would have been ultra-conservative), but signed a 20 week ban… which again, is not ultra-conservative. The moderate position is not “all abortion is fine”.
That’s not a quote. It’s my description of what actually happened. In the past, I actually posted the budget numbers, but I’m not gonna bother digging it up again. Kasich vetoed a republican section of the budget, which was solely directed at rich school districts, and this was then described as “a cut”.
There was no neat story about what I’m saying here. I’m describing what happened, based on actually researching the details of the actual budget changes that were imposed at the time.
Seriously. Timex. We’ve been over this in this thread in like the last three days. He’s not a fucking moderate! He’s a hard-line right-winger whose claim to being a ‘moderate’ is that he’s not a reality-divorced Tea Partier or Trumpinista!
His policy positions and track record are those of a hard-core Gingrichite conservative. This has been demonstrated over and over and fucking over again.
Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary. I will make a good faith effort to read it if you decide to.
Ha, yeah, I’m definitely aware many of us are left-biased. I couldn’t stand hanging out on a forum if it was right-leaning. I’ll grant you he’s probably firmly in the “conservative” mold instead of “ultra”. I think he’s 99% better than a crapload of Republicans out there but I still couldn’t vote for him, unless it was Kasich vs. Trump somehow.
As an aside, I don’t think anyone in the world is pro-abortion. I’m pro-choice because I think it’s important to have as an option for many scenarios, as I’m sure most pro-choice people are. I’m not cheering on abortions across the land. But that’s whole other can of worms with the “pro-life” label, etc.
Very briefly, I will describe things which are clearly not “ultra-conservative”.
So Kasich’s views on abortion, as described above, are not “ultra” conservative. Again, we all understand how merely being pro-life is not “ultra-conservative”, right? Seriously, do we all agree on that? Because the breakdown on that issue continues to be pretty evenly split in America.
The GOP controlled legislature in Ohio put forth a far more conservative postition, which Kasich vetoed. A 20 week ban is, to many people (me included) a pretty reasonable position to take. I realize that you may not agree with this position, but from my perspective as a scientist, I feel like 20 weeks is a good break even point because you generally know you’re pregnant before then… and at that point, the unborn child makes certain developmental changes which cause ethical concerns with killing it. This kind of limitation on abortion is, to me, not an ultra-conservative position but rather a compromise.
Likewise, while it’s totally fine to criticize the actual educational policy in Ohio, his actions there are clearly not “ultra-conservative”, in that he specifically fought against his own party on that front.
Kasich’s views on expansion of medicaid, are certainly not “ultra-conservative”.
His views on banning AR15’s, again, certainly are not “ultra-conservative”.
I wouldn’t expect you to. Again, the idea that he’d be the Dem candidate is silly.
Just saying I personally despise Kasich for many reasons, but I would likewise vote for him over Trump every single time.
Regarding the dispute on where he stands, there’s a few things which seem to be muddying the waters;
beliefs vs. policy
example: abortion.
Kasich is pro-life in every sense of the word and personally believes abortion should be banned. However, he knows that won’t fly in the state and so he’s aimed at curtailing abortions as much as possible (including implementing Texas-style requirements to limit the places a woman can receive the procedure).
conservative/ultra-conservative vs. GOP party line
example: public schools
Most people who take a little time to think about it will agree that the GOP really isn’t actually conservative except in specific venues. The actual true all-around conservatives? Libertarians; minimal government in every conceivable field. Of course, there’s a lot of practical issues with that approach, so a party in power has to abandon pretense at such principles in order to get stuff done.
Kasich believes local, individual control of schools is best with the assumption any given school will achieve its purpose of educating students. If he had his way, every school would be a charter school. But again, he knows that won’t fly. So instead he’s worked on expanding the program as much as possible. Timex is right on the basics in terms of how it works; the funding is supplied to the school districts, and they forward the per student funding to the charter schools when the student switches. There is a distinct problem with the math the state uses, but that’s neither Kasich’s nor Timex’s fault; the basic infrastructure and upkeep costs don’t reduce proportionately to the number of students enrolled, so students leaving the public system tightens the budget unnecessarily. That said, the current system of school funding is more fair than it’s been in decades. No, seriously;
Ohio’s public school funding system was found to be unconstitutional back in the 70’s and it has barely changed since then, despite SCOTUS requiring it to. It used to be even distribution of state funds paired with local property taxes. In poor districts, this meant the schools would be massively underfunded. In wealthy districts, they’d be pitching monorails or Segways over busses. In a mirror to Plessy vs. Ferguson, this new separate but equal BS was determined to be BS. To Kasich’s credit, he’s overseen changes in how this funding has gradually shifted to need-based. Unfortunately, there’s still a “cost efficacy” test associated with the funding, where a failing school potentially loses out instead of getting additional help. This, of course, opens up opportunities for charter schools to swoop in and scoop up the students.