2702

‘Human impact has pushed Earth into the anthropocene, scientists say’:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jan/07/human-impact-has-pushed-earth-into-the-anthropocene-scientists-say

There is now compelling evidence to show that humanity’s impact on the Earth’s atmosphere, oceans and wildlife has pushed the world into a new geological epoch, according to a group of scientists.

The question of whether humans’ combined environmental impact has tipped the planet into an “anthropocene” – ending the current holocene which began around 12,000 years ago – will be put to the geological body that formally approves such time divisions later this year.

The new study provides one of the strongest cases yet that from the amount of concrete mankind uses in building to the amount of plastic rubbish dumped in the oceans, Earth has entered a new geological epoch.

“We could be looking here at a stepchange from one world to another that justifies being called an epoch,” said Dr Colin Waters, principal geologist at the British Geological Survey and an author on the study published in Science on Thursday.

“What this paper does is to say the changes are as big as those that happened at the end of the last ice age . This is a big deal.”

2703

That guardian article may be true, but I don’t see why it’s a “big deal” since it’s just a label. The effects caused by what people have done to the earth are no different whether we’re in one epoch or another.

2704

Eh, all this really means is that humans have created enough of an impact as to create a stratigraphic change in the geological record. Basically, we’ve made stuff and changed the surface of the earth to the extent that in the distant future you’d see a layer in the sediment with stuff in it that wasn’t there previously.

Which frankly, isn’t surprising, and isn’t really bad.

2705

Which frankly is totally wrong.
Wide scale simplification and fragmentation of ecosystems world wide are causing species extinction rates comparable to those found in past extinction events (which doesn’t even address the poaching and illegal wildlife trade.) In other words, we are the asteroid.

2706

What exactly do you think is wrong about what I said? The majority of that paper appears to be about the geological stratification caused by introduction of novel materials by humans. Things like certain chemical compounds which don’t occur naturally, concentrations of radioactive isotopes from the development of nuclear weapons, and a layer of radioactive carbon increased by usage of fossil fuels.

2707

First of all I’m pissed off at myself for violating my self-imposed ban on posting in P&R.

But to answer your question:
“All this really means” and “isn’t all that bad” are statements I take issue with; perhaps you only meant them in the context of that one particular article, but there have been many papers on the Anthropocene (I’ve posted links about it previously) which extends beyond merely the geologic record. It’s also inclusive of human industrial activity and our impact on ecosystems, habitats and other species as well.

(Because of the mailing lists I’m on and the twitter accounts I follow, I am inundated daily with dozens of bad environmental news stories to the point I can’t really cope with them any longer. I react badly to any kind of minimization (real or imagined) the peril the planet faces (beyond climate change) and really should not participate any longer in discussions on the matter. Ergo, feel free to ignore me.)

2708

Yes, my comments were discussing that article, which focuses on the geological stratification primarily. While it mentions increasing extinction rates, the main thrust of the article is making a case for classification of a new epoch based upon the fact that the past hundred years or so have resulted in a geologically significant change due to the environmental changes caused by humans. That if you were some future civilization, looking back through the record, you could see a layer of the earth which clearly had the fingerprint of humanity on it.

But this in itself is no inherently bad. Indeed, I suspect such a thing would be entirely unavoidable for any advanced civilization.

This isn’t to say that aspects of what humanity has done as part of that fingerprint ARE bad, but the fact that humanity has altered the earth to a noticeable degree is not bad in and of itself.

2709

It is a sign of us moving closer to our own extinction, in a nutshell.

Grumpy mentioned many of those reasons why, so i won’t retread the obvious. Now you may be right Timex in asking what is so bad about that, but i’m an optimist that feels humans have a bright future, IF we stop destroying it via our greed (which is what is driving most of the problems).

2710

Climate change is NOT going to make the human race extinct. We’re too adaptable. It will kill a lot of people and many species will become extinct and our ecosystem will take significant hits, but the human race will survive it, providing nuclear war doesn’t break out as a result.

2711

So just “the end of civilization as we know it” and not extinction. Well. That’s a relief.

2712

Yeah, humanity is pretty damn good at using our brains to survive in pretty much any situation, so humans will probably be fine, but the world might look a lot different.

2713

You know they frack in California too.

2714

I guess you got something to look forward to then!

2715

Here they just have problems like the state illegally letting the frackers pollute. Small things like that.

2716

I’m not even sure of that. That gets into how badly the interconnected ecosystems end up damaged, and I don’t think those models are anywhere near settled.

2717

Just be glad you don’t live in Oklahoma.

2718

Well said, but what does that have to do with fracking?

2719

Seriously?

They have more earthquakes than California now. …

2720

No, I was jokingly taking a cheap shot at Oklahoma. But I apparently missed the mark. :)

2721

I got it. Granted enough trips across Kansas ans Nebraska to get to Colorado mean that you wouldn’t be able to pay me enough to live in either state.

So don’t worry about Drax, the joke was spot on ;)