There’s barely anything out there!

http://stuffin.space/

Just a heads up fellows, Australia is having an election on Saturday and this is very relevant to the thread for two reasons: (i) Australia is one of the few countries left on Earth with large swathes of wilderness areas still available (along with rich biodiversity etc.), and (ii) the two major parties have a clear difference on environmental policy.

The incumbent Liberal party (in Down Under it’s topsy turvy, the liberals are the right-wing party) look set to lose, while the opposition are promising a number of things including climate change action (which they implemented last time in government but were reversed when a dickhead got power in 2013), a federal environmental protection agency which will hopefully slow or stop land clearing and deforestation that is going on, and are advocating for more marine parks.

One last issue is that there are proposals for massive coal mines to be opened for development, which if occur and we start exporting coal throughout the life of the mine will lock in an amount of climate change for the world that would be sad (to put it mildly).

So pray / cross your fingers / send good thoughts for us on Saturday that we don’t screw it up.

Well, to qualify that we’ve also experienced the highest worldwide rate of mammal extinction, recovery plans for remaining species are lacking, land clearing is at unacceptably high levels, there have been a number of major environmental catastrophes from the collapse of river systems and massive mangrove die-offs to the imminent death of major coral reefs, and corruption on an unprecedented scale. Of course this has largely happened under the watch of the Liberal Coalition, whose unrepentant, arrogant attitude is likely part of what will lose them this election, although it is far from certain given the widespread misinformation tactics they’re using backed up with the Murdoch media empire that controls 70% of Australia’s news outlets. Even if Labour win, the Liberal philosophy is (as it’s always been) that it’s just a pause until they’re re-elected a few years later and can roll back any progress that’s been made.

But do people wear pants on their heads?

Agree 100% @krayzkrok.

This is why I wonder in the modern world if conservation is even possible in a democratic environment with self-interested voters. Choosing to conserve something is a continual choice that is made every day from now until the end of the world, while choosing to destroy it is a one-time decision that is irreversible. It only takes one bad government.

There are far too many stupid, selfish shitfucks for democracy to be remotely viable.

Unfortunately, those same shitfucks make authoritarianism pretty risky, too. Alas.

This is exactly why the term ‘conservative’ in the modern political sense in our country has become meaningless.

I have conservative friends and I think they understand this, and feel betrayed by how their ideals have been completely hijacked under the name of their ideology.

-xtien

Whoa…Have I been lied to??

image

Just remember @Tim_N

We are very spoiled in Australia, we can vote for the Greens without being blamed for Abbott becoming PM or anything like that. I’d be volunteering for them on Saturday if my niece didn’t have a birthday party on the same day. Thanks Niece!

My only outlet this election cycle has been to shame all of the fellow Christians I know for voting for parties that are annihilating God’s creation. The saddest thing is many of them seem to care for the environment (at least with their words), but then go bla bla Shorten bla bla taxes bla bla homosexuals.

I managed to convince a family member to vote for the Greens in the NSW state election a couple of months ago, which was one of the most surprising events I have ever witnessed considering she voted for One Nation in the last election. But this time the propaganda machine against Labor is just too strong.

We are full (the wilderness areas I alluded to are full of kangaroos and feral animals!), but I am happy to trade you for one of the many bogans we have.

Has the political ideology of conservatism ever been linked to environmental conservation? I know about Teeddy Roosevelt, etc., but it was my understanding conservatism was more about social policy. Not destroying the planet is a rather radical idea that I think (correct me if I am wrong) only arose more recently and almost entirely on the left.

We would, but we’re already wearing our shoes on them.

That’s a good question. I think my friend Tom has spoken of conservatism in the terms of not wanting to change things. Rather, keeping them as they were (as opposed to liberalism, which is more about change). He puts it better, but basically it’s about preserving what is in the natural order. Which should mean protecting the planet and respecting its resources.

So I think of conservatism in the way I think of conservation. I mean, the whole stewardship philosophy from the Bible and all, since Christianity is so linked to conservative ideology.

Unfortunately it’s actually more akin to a philosophy of “Make as much money as you can, and the Earth can just fuck off” and “The Rapture is coming anyway so who cares” so that’s why I couch it in those terms.

-xtien

I’ve always thought conservatism was more about personal benefit, doing well for yourself and reaping the rewards, as well as keeping tradition (and traditional values) alive. That’s how my dad viewed it - work hard, you’ll do well in life. Trouble is, somewhere along the line the idea of personal wealth and success has become equated with “at the cost of everything else”, which would seem to be counter to the goals of keeping traditional values alive. And also counter to personal survival. It’s become individualism without lateral thinking.

Conservatism is and always has been about keeping the right people — the elites — in power. Everything else it offers is in service to that goal. There is a natural, traditional order to things, and we shouldn’t lightly upset that order, and of course that order means me and my rich white male friends get to run things. That is why conservatism is about low taxes (so I can keep my money), and pro-business (so I can make more), and obsessed with law and order (so the police protect my property), and with personal liberty (so I can associate with the right people and keep the wrong people out).

Conservatism occasionally embraces conservation (so that no one can build anything that obstructs my view, or keeps me from sailing my boat through beautiful seas), but never really stays there (after all, I have to make cheap widgets, and someone else was going to fuck up the water in that stream anyway).

Isn’t Australia sorta always burning? If you can’t convince Australia that climate change is bad, what hope for the rest?

Unless it’s all a plot to get rid of the wild life. 😂

Over a hundred years ago people appeared to be incapable of understanding that species could be driven to extinction through human exploitation. We know better now, but that hasn’t stopped us. Maybe it’s the inevitable, evolutionary consequence of apex predators reaching sentience, I don’t know. I don’t think there’s an answer, especially as modern humans grow increasingly disconnected from their environment.

Here’s the sad fate of the passenger pigeon, a story being repeated today across the planet for untold numbers of species.

The notion that the species could be driven to extinction was alien to the early colonists, because the number of birds did not appear to diminish, and also because the concept of extinction was yet to be defined. The bird seems to have been slowly pushed westwards after the arrival of Europeans, becoming scarce or absent in the east, though there were still millions of birds in the 1850s. The population must have been decreasing in numbers for many years, though this went unnoticed due to the apparent vast number of birds, which clouded their decline.[58] In 1856 Bénédict Henry Révoil may have been one of the first writers to voice concern about the fate of the passenger pigeon, after witnessing a hunt in 1847:

> Everything leads to the belief that the pigeons, which cannot endure isolation and are forced to flee or to change their way of living according to the rate at which North America is populated by the European inflow, will simply end by disappearing from this continent, and, if the world does not end this before a century, I will wager… that the amateur of ornithology will find no more wild pigeons, except those in the Museums of Natural History.

By the 1870s, the decrease in birds was noticeable, especially after the last large-scale nestings and subsequent slaughters of millions of birds in 1874 and 1878. By this time, large nestings only took place in the north, around the Great Lakes. The last large nesting was in Petoskey, Michigan, in 1878 (following one in Pennsylvania a few days earlier), where 50,000 birds were killed each day for nearly five months. The surviving adults attempted a second nesting at new sites, but were killed by professional hunters before they had a chance to raise any young. Scattered nestings are reported into the 1880s, but the birds were now wary, and commonly abandoned their nests if persecuted.

One of the great scenes in the Netflix nature show ‘Our Planet’ is the Walruses being squeezed together on an island so tightly that some climb cliffs to find escape, and then plunge to their death. The narration says that the the apparent over-population is an illusion. Their habitat has been lost and the reduction in sea ice is forcing mothers and cubs to crowd together on small islands.

Ugh, I can’t watch that stuff. Watching how wildlife suffers (from situations we have caused) is just like a kick in the gut for me. Even reading your description is going to leave me depressed for the rest of the morning.

Oh, man did you see the video of the baboon trying to fight off the excavator destroying its home? It sort of punches the shovel a few times, while the construction crew throw some logs at it to scare it away. Eventually just gives up and lies down looking at the sky.

Sorry.

Edit. Maybe on a slightly more positive note, please do watch the series. The footage is absolutely incredible, captured with low-flying drones etc.

I prefer the sequel with the baboons discovering the excavator orbiting Jupiter.

also