We are the privileged few

…or at least I am, and I suspect many of the rest of the QT3 hivemind fall under that description as well. Probably this isn’t a great surprise to anyone. I knew it, in a cerebral sense. But this last week, some things happened that kinda hit me at a gut level.

  • One of the kids I work with at the summer education program tore his pants. It happens with kids, no big deal. But he was seriously upset because that was his only pair of pants. This being a refugee program, the permanent staff there was prepared and we were able to get him a new pair. But it really hit me, there’s people that don’t have the resources to deal with something as simple as torn pants.
  • I met up with three friends that I used to work with on Thursday, the day after the fourth of July holiday here in the USA. One of them works in Seattle, and had flown back to West Michigan to spend the (very) long holiday weekend. None of us were hurting by taking off Thursday and Friday as vacation days (particularly my retired ass). No one lost significant income from not working on days that aren’t official holidays. All of us were fine spending $50+ on beer and bar food, on no special occasion, just a chance to see one another and catch up.
  • I went to Meijer (our local superstore) and picked up various groceries and household stuff. I’ve done this a gazillion times and never really noticed my fellow shoppers, but for some reason this time I did. A few were wearing the “Shipt” green shirts that showed they were shopping for wealthier folks that were willing to pay for having their stuff delivered. Most were people of color. Many had several small children. I picked up an apple pie just because it looked good, didn’t even think about the price. Just about everyone else was carefully looking at everything they picked up, as far as I could tell to check for the best prices. When I hit the checkout, everyone but me had a sheaf of coupons. (To be fair, I did have a digital coupon.) I was the only person I saw that used a smartphone pay option.
  • I pulled out of the parking lot of that shopping trip in my 2017 Chevy Cruze. Most of the other cars in that lot weren’t anywhere near a 2017 model. Many had rust, dents, and other noticeable flaws.

And that’s not even touching stuff like availability of health care, housing, educational opportunities, etc.

All this is anecdotal, I know. For whatever reason, it just hit home to me this week that I’m way up in the upper middle class. I may not make the top 1%, but I’m certainly in the top 10%. I try to give back in various ways, but I can’t imagine that any of the stuff I do is even close to making up the difference between what I have and the situation of someone on the bottom end of the wealth distribution.

This kind of realization is why I’m center-left on the American political spectrum these days. (Despite starting way over on the right-hand side in the way I was reared.) The ideals of “personal responsibility” and “level playing field” that makes up the core of true conservative thought (not to be confused with Trump “conservatives” that are just out to expand the inequality gap) just doesn’t sit well with me any more, because so many people simply do not have the same resources that I do. I still like the concepts of those conservative ideals but I just don’t see how they can be properly applied when the starting points for many people are so far apart.

Am I alone in this? Presumably not, but I’d love to hear other thoughts. Is there a logical reconciliation of the vast wealth/opportunity divide and the conservative ideals that try to treat everyone equally?

You and I have very similar stories here, as you know. Far right upbringing in legalistic Christian community. Have a profession in tech that makes life comfortable enough that I can afford to travel, and not sweat small details.

I also have had brushes with the other end of the spectrum, both witnessed and first hand. I worked at a dollar store on the south side of Chicago. I had several months living on my own after I lost my job in the height of the crisis. Knowing what it’s like to have to decide whether to pay the electric bill, or have enough money to get gas to go to a job interview is not an abstract concept for me. Having $40 to last me a month and a half in food, that was my reality for a while.

But it was brief, but I’ve seen people whom that is their life, day in day out, year after year. It has had a profound impact on my politics. I was already drifting away from the politics of my parents, but this sent me sprinting.

Which is why I am as harsh on the politics of the GOP as I am, it takes willfully ignoring the reality around you, of insulating yourself from the experiences of others.

On any playing field there are losers as well as winners.

What is generally meant by “level playing field” means both starting out on even terms and having the same opportunity for advancement. The divide that I’m talking about limits both of those things. While it’s true that those who do have similar starting points and opportunities won’t end up in the same place, it’s not what I meant…which I suspect you know but chose to misinterpret.

The use of sports terminology (not just by you) is not insignificant, and says a lot about US psychology. (I’m not sure this term is used much outside the US.) I mean, it sort of promotes fairness (doesn’t that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?), yet conveniently still allows you to shamelessly fawn over life’s winners (yay!).

[edit]

I don’t think anyone believes this any more, but wasn’t that the whole appeal of Trump? E.g. he was some sort of rags-to-riches story? E.g. not an elite? Sports analogies are an example of populism.

YakAttack:
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not, but if not then I think you are reading a bit too much into 3 words out of the 700 or so that Timex wrote.

And if we’re going to take issue with any part of Timex’s original post, it would be the “conservative ideals”. As a hardened liberal I read that and did a double take. If pressed to think of conservative ideals it would power and the marvel of power, chance and the terror of chance. :D

But generally I think the post is spot on.

Edit: my mistake, I mixed up Timex and IneffableBob. There’s just something about IneffableBob that’s so difficult to put into words.

I wasn’t criticizing his post. It was just an offhand remark, and he chose to turn it into a personal attack.

I’ve found out from personal experience that I’ve got to be careful with my own offhand remarks. They get misinterpreted all the time, unless I’m very clear in my meaning.

Looking all over for that Timex post!

I learned about my privilege in basic training for the Army. I was there because I basically got bored midway through college and thought I’d join the military to get some adventure and real-world experience. I met young men in my platoon that came because they were told that you can have meat served to you at every meal. I was blown away by that.

Later, in Iraq, those same guys were like kings compared to many of the refugees.

[quote=“YakAttack, post:5, topic:136113”]
The use of sports terminology (not just by you) is not insignificant, and says a lot about US psychology. (I’m not sure this term is used much outside the US.)

It’s a term that originated in Europe and especially the UK in soccer/futbol, where an uphill/downhill pitch gives one team an advantage.

I mean, it sort of promotes fairness (doesn’t that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?), yet conveniently still allows you to shamelessly fawn over life’s winners (yay!).

It’s a phrase in common usage in the commerce sector, almost completely devoid of sports connotation at this point in contextual parlance. And the main use it has isn’t the use case you describe about identifying and celebrating winners–it’s typically a use case that involves creating situations of fair commercial interaction, or using a statistical reduction to present a situation in which apples can be compared to oranges by modeling an equal transactional arena to assess true actual value of an entity and its operations.

Also, I didn’t see any personal attack in Bob’s response to you. Quite the opposite in fact, I thought he was very restrained in clarifying.

Your response on the other hand felt almost like it was an insulting choice to pick out three words in a well-written and thought-provoking post and add your own spin on them to distract from the conversation at hand and dig at the OP directly. I mean, you basically told ineffablebob that by using that phrase, it created a situation where it “conveniently allows you to shamelessly fawn over life’s winners” (your words)…which his post was doing exactly the opposite of.

Your post felt like the equivalent of Dudley pointing out dents on a taxi cab.

I think a lot of this comes from exposure, perhaps? I mean, if you have an extended period of your life in which you have a lot of interaction with people who were not blessed with the same privileges, you’re going to be able to see things from other viewpoints better.

For my own self, I think I was lucky to have been raised in a family where some of those values were taught. And I think some of it came from having an older brother living at home while I was in grade school and he was finishing his divinity doctorate and doing social work on the side and bringing home stories of helping out those in abject poverty in some scary parts of the city.

But then I also got exposure. You work in a restaurant in a city these days, and a lot of the staff is going to be persons of color. And I’m my lazy-ass self, working just enough shifts to afford beer, rock shows, and paying rent…and I’m surrounded by persons of color and immigrants who are working 2-3 jobs, 12-16 hours per day to make a better life for themselves. And eventually that opens your eyes. And, hopefully it teaches a lesson (it did for me, but it took a good while, too) about taking inherent privileges for granted.

Craig used the word “insulating”, and I think that’s a great description.

I am aware of this. My point is just that there are deeper layers beneath what we say (or think we are saying). And irony (e.g. a commendable post lamenting the fate of losers and the oppressed, but using terminology that enables/assumes scenarios where there can only be losers and winners*). Language is a collaborative effort, and this sort of thing definitely happens more often than I am able to notice, so we can all take the blame.

[*] Okay, in soccer, a game can result in a tie. But achieving a tie is not the purpose of the game.

You are not alone. I had such a moment last year when a politician got flack for not knowing what basic food costs and Irealized I could not tell what a dozen eggs or a bread actually cost because I simply didn’t care, I could go shopping and not look at prices. Luckily I also was without a job and had to live for a year on states assistance here in Germany a long time ago. Compared to USA it was propably luxurious. And I think you nailed an important issue, people need to live and experience these things first hand or they will always be ignorant of the realities. Sadly many take great pains to actually avoid that exposure. Hence I am far more left then some of my colleagues and friends.

I was raised in a home that espoused liberal values (it was only years later that I learned how reactionary my father was behind his silent demeanor), but the 5 years I spent in the infantry really bought home to me the insidious nature of poverty.

I served from 1981 through 1985. During that time my income ranged from $450 per month to a peak of $650 per month. That’s equivalent to $1200 and $1700 per month today. We were a household of 3, so well below the poverty level. My wife couldn’t work as we had an infant child, and the cost of child care would have exceeded any income she might have earned.

I recall clearly being basically unable to survive on that income. I recall being called into the company HQ offices to see the sergeant major, so he could tell me he’d applied for food stamps on my behalf. I recall being called from formation, along with a few other married soldiers, to be given a gift food basket every Thanksgiving and Christmas. I assume now that the CO of the company was using his discretionary training funds to buy food for us.

I recall pawning things to be able to buy food or gas, and paying the markup (30%) later to get the things back. The street outside of every military base I served at was lined with pawn shops. I recall realizing at some point that actually reclaiming the pawned items was impossible, so gradually we lost everything we had of value.

I recall being hounded every day by creditors I couldn’t pay. I recall days with no electricity, or no water, because I couldn’t muster the cash to turn them back on. I recall my dismay when I discovered that any creditor could go around me, make a claim against my pay to the government, and the government would agreeably garnish my wages to pay the creditor, which meant I couldn’t buy food.

During this entire period of my life I was employed full-time at what was considered a real, meaningful job. When people say now that there should be a work requirement for food stamps or Medicaid, I wonder what the fuck they think those people are doing. When people say that higher minimum wages would cost jobs, I wonder what the point is of a job you can’t live on. When people say that the poor bring poverty on themselves, I want to hit them. When people say there are always winners and losers, I wonder why it should be necessary to kick the losers.

I’m lucky, because I managed to get out of the cycle, mostly through good timing and good luck. But millions of people in our rich country live that life and will likely die in it. Our country is rich, and this reality should not be. It’s that simple for me.

I’m a 2nd gen immigrant, Asian, drop out, and single parent household from mid teens onwards. My father in particular experienced real poverty and we weren’t above poverty line until I was 8 or so. Up to 30 I was heavily into drugs and raves and hung on the streets with my fellow dregs.

The fact I’m now well into middle class territory hovering around a few percent below the 1% has nothing to do with privilege.

You are privileged, at least from a global perspective. Imagine your life if you’d had the bad luck to be born in Somalia.

Playingwithknives, I’m not sure what your point is. Are you saying as along as you are willing to work hard you can do anything? I have no doubt that you worked hard to get out of poverty, but I’m also willing to bet that you got lucky at some point along the way - someone who took a chance on you, or a lucky circumstance that came your way and you were able to grab. Maybe that has nothing to do with privilege, but not everyone gets lucky.
Sorry if I misinterpreted.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s platform is centered on helping people in the situation you describe. I am thankful that she won her primary, and that you told your story here.

I definitely had this realization in college. Grew up upper middle class, but with a father that was not about hand-outs (he is definitely a Kasich style Republican) and we had to work for our allowance, and got jobs when we were old enough to work at the nearby Mcdonalds. But I know that I basically won the lottery growing up. Food always on the table, toys at christmas, no worries about College, because Mom and Dad would help pay for wherever I wanted to go.

It blows my mind that anyone from a position of privilege like me should forget that when talking about the world or politics. It is probably why I am so damn liberal, why wouldn’t I want the next generation to be guaranteed the same opportunities I was given?

And if you didn’t grow up in a stable home or wealthy environment, why would you want others to have that experience as well? I understand that you might have a sense of pride that you were able to pull yourself out of a difficult circumstance, but a lot of that is luck too. Why would you want other people to have to gamble their lives too?

I forged my own path. Lady Luck had nothing to do with it.

The main factor is that the City contains inclusive meritocracies. That’s not luck, that’s progressive design.