"We didn't kill that many," Japanese claim (Nanking)

TOKYO: About 100 Japanese governing party lawmakers denounced the Nanjing Massacre as a fabrication on Tuesday, contesting Chinese claims that Japanese soldiers killed hundreds of thousands of people after seizing the Chinese city in 1937.

The members of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s Liberal Democratic Party said there was no evidence to prove mass killings by Japanese soldiers in the captured Nationalist capital, then known as Nanking. They accused Beijing of using the alleged incident as a “political advertisement.”


To a certain extent this is expected given the new nationalistic, pro-patriotism government that’s in power right now.

Odd thing is that Abe seems determined to increase ties with Japan’s Asian neighbors while he’s in power so we’ll have to see exactly how the whole thing plays out

Then again, Abe has gotten off to a pretty terrible start so far…having a cabinet member commit suicide only a year or so in isn’t the best way to start a prime ministry post

Isn’t Abe the same one who recently denied the use of captured Korean women as forced labor/prostitutes/comfort girls/whatever they called them?

Guy sounds like a tool to me.

I do not think the Japanese have ever truly owned up for what they did, unlike, say, the majority of Germans.

It is a bit frightening.

Not the use. He said they weren’t “coerced” into doing it for a living. I’m surprised he didn’t take the next logical step and accuse those Korean hussies of corrupting Japanese men.

But Nanking denial is on a whole different scale. I can’t wait wait to see the ensuing O RLY from China. I wonder if there’s an equivalent for “Black Rain” for Nanking, as in a conceptually sound retelling of a major national trauma via movie. I’d watch it.

One of my best friends is Chinese and has a fairly deep-seated aversion to the Japanese. His grandfather was supposedly killed by Japanese soldiers after refusing to remove his hat and bow his head as they passed. Of course, I have no idea what really happened, but I imagine that’s not horribly far off, and I gather that lots of Chinese feel the same way.

I’ve always been bothered by the fact that Japan has never owned up.

I’m kind of a Chinese immigrant. My grandmother’s face lights up with perverse joy when she talks about running away from a Japanese soldier when she was 13. That would be around 1944. She’s fairly anti-Japanese.

My other set of grandparents talk more about hunger. They lived in China through WW2 and Mao’s disasters. My grandmother to this day won’t eat sweet potatoes because that’s what they survived on. And a bit of cannibalism as is traditional just to make everyone disgusted, so this doesn’t sound like oh just one of those stories.

My grandmother’s generation was taught to hate Japanese people in school. My mother doesn’t. When she was growing up in the 60s/70s she looked up to Japan as the seat of culture, manufactured goods, clothing, etc. It was her dream to go to Japan which she finally did last year. To her disappointment now that she can afford everything there was nothing she wanted to buy.

Korean people hate Japanese people a LOT more. They suffered a longer period of colonization (1910 - 1945 ). Old people in Korea (people around 70) learned to read Chinese characters in school. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea

My best friend is half-Japanese. Her grandfather was born in the 1930s, probably too young to have gone and killed any peasant coolies. In any case, he was a wife-beating bastard and nobody mourned him too much when he finally passed. Most of those people are dead, there’s nobody left to hate. The young people grow up ignorant of war attrocities. I strongly suspect the problem was Hiroshima. The Japanese think they are victims of the war, not repentant aggressors.

I went to Hiroshima around Christmas and visited the peace museum. it’s got an atomic watch clock. It’s very sad. The English translations were surprisingly evenhanded - the tone was war is very bad, people turn nasty during war. I really wished I had a translator at the time so they could tell me what it said in Japanese.

Darnit, now i’m all depressed. :( sad stuff.

What is an “atomic watch clock?” Is that just a nuclear powered clock? Or a watch that gets reset every time an atomic bomb goes off?

It’s probably the latter or some variation of the good ol’ Doomsday Clock. I find it hard to believe they would just be dangling one of those ridiculous atomic watch clocks that are so super accurate that they don’t even have to match your pocket protector to be cool at NERDCON.

Shinzo Abe has been making an ass out of himself fairly regularly:


On a related note, I kept putting off reading The Rape of Nanking, expecting it would depress the living shit out of me. Finally got around to it a couple weeks ago.

Surprisingly, it was just very thought-provoking. It covers the background history, the Japanese school system, the various military factions, troop movements and the implications. Some of the stuff they got up to makes the Nazis look like amateurs.

Much like Primo Levi, I’m really glad I was forced to read Iris Chang by a course rather than attempting it on my own the first time. I can sit through movies that dire without batting an eye, but books that well done and tragic…

It depressed the hell out of its author. She committed suicide a few years ago.

Well, that and getting continually harrassed by the nutjobs.

Yup, sorry, it’s one of those “doomsday clocks” Lizard King mentions.

I was thinking this morning about Japanese war crimes. I think the old nuts people are hopeless and won’t change their minds. If the young generations were repentant and thought something like, “yeah people do bad things during war and the Japanese did a lot of them too” then I think that would satisfy enough people in China and Korea.

Or maybe we just need more time. It’s hard to direct any blame or hate to ignorant(?) Hello-Kitty loving people.

A few weeks ago I saw an article where the goverment’s response to their educational woes (i wish the US had THOSE woes geez) was to instill some patriotism program. Flag waving, national anthem, that sort of deal. The reverse of what we need :(

Google news: “patriotism japan”


Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s ruling coalition voted for the bill, which would cite “loving our country” as a goal of Japanese education, despite the opposition’s warning that it could spread nationalism.

According to this link they passed the final touches last night:

She was actually working on a new book about the Bataan Death March. She was becoming bipolar, thinking the American government was after her. I doubt they were really after her, but getting information about Japanese atrocities here in the USA is quite difficult.

Iris Chang had some fucked up disorder that basically prevented her from sleeping for over a year, and wasn’t responding to medication. I’d consider killing myself at that point, too.

I doubt they were really after her, but getting information about Japanese atrocities here in the USA is quite difficult.
That’s just what they want you to think, Dirt. Japanese agents are everywhere.

When I was a kid (11 or under) our third-world country had interesting television shows. Instead of rainbow-brite or GI Joe we had documentaries. I remember watching many WW2 documentaries filmed by the Japanese soldiers themselves.

Some are for men standing next to a ditch. The soldiers methodically run up and bayonet them in.

One was an old woman. A white-coated doctor freezes her hand with liquid nitrogen. She doesn’t react. Then he takes a hammer and shatters her hand. She starts to scream.

What is it about sadists that they need to film this?

Edit: I did some googling. It seems this was called “Bacterial and Experimental Unit 731”

This is a BBC article on Unit 731 for a tad more creditibility than the wiki:


Warning - it’s stomach churning.

The hell? Are you in an alternate universe or something? Do they stop you at a bookstore and tell you that you can only get textbooks approved by the Co-Prosperity Sphere Authorities? Because in my universe accounts of the Pacific War are quite specific and graphic about Imperial atrocities.

Try getting specific info from the US government.