Talk about a unclaimed genre. I can’t think of a single one, which is odd, considering the possibilities. Fallout kinda counts, as the wasteland has a real western feel to it, but it kind of doesn’t.
The Underdogs website doesn’t list any at all.
Western RPG. yawn
I don’t think the audience would be big enough.
On the other hand, there’s this:
http://www.deadlands.com/WeirdWest/Index.htm
Now THAT would be a western RPG I’d play :D
Loyd Case
So people who like RPGs don’t like Westerns? That doesn’t make any sense.
There’s Wild Arms 1 & 2 for PlayStation and Wild Arms 3 for PlayStation 2.
No anime, please. :D
Those are on my list to check out, though. Is the plot actually in the Western genre, or just the setting?
There might be a bit of a cross-medium effect at work here. RPG fans are probably likely to enjoy sci-fi/fantasy movies and shows, and are less likely to watch westerns.
Of course, hardly any western movie/shows get made any more so, it’s sort of a chicken-and-egg question. Though classics by Sergio Leone, John Ford, etc., still carry some cultural currency.
I wouldn’t mind a Western RPG but I must admit it’s not something I’d be that eager to see. The Old West has never been a setting that fired up my imagination. Of neglected RPG settings I would prefer to see more high-sci-fi (i.e. Star Trek style, not post-nuclear); or ancient Greek/Roman mythology; or maybe Chinese/Japanese (not anime, but more like Moebius). One of the neatest RPG settings was “Rivers of Light,” the bundled game Stuart Smith made for his Adventure Construction Set, which was set in dawn-of-civilization Babylonia and was based on the epic of Gilgamesh.
But a Heroic Greek RPG, done up with all the bells and whistles, would be nice. Lots of neat locations like Knossos, Mycenae, Troy, Delphi… a pantheon of petulant gods to mess with you… great bestiary of monsters.
Still, a good RPG is a good RPG… I wouldn’t turn my nose down at a gun-slinging one. I suppose the combat system could be similar to Fallout’s, with slightly weaker firearms and the inclusions of arrows and such.
I seem to remember a game, released in the mid-80’s, called Law Of The West. It was sort of RPG-ish.
Ah, yes. Here it is.
It doesn’t? Sure it does… Westerns are dead and plenty of people see them as a mass of tired, uncool, cliches. Sad to say, I don’t think anybody likes them except me and you. Back in 1983 I had no problem DM’ing D&D, Star Frontiers, Gamma World, or Traveler, but nobody wanted to play Boot Hill. Right now I think Westerns are one of the least lucrative genres in Hollywood. Everthing seems to fail. This is inexplicable to me, as I’m a big fan of the old Oat Opera, but the lack of Western RPGs isn’t as much of a surprise as the lack of Horror, Crime, PI/Secret Agent, Superhero etc., RPGs. It’s Sci-Fi, Post Apocalyptic (barely), and Fantasy/fantasy/fantasy. I mean, not even the mod community is doing much with Westerns (except that Half-Life one, is there another?) I can see suits being overconservative, but the mod scene is usually an indicator of what people really want.
I suppose if Outlaws had been successful enough to get a sequel, maybe we’d see more Wild West content but the genre’s been resting on Boot Hill for a while now. You didn’t notice? Why not give it a visit and bring some nice flowers?
I mean, not even the mod community is doing much with Westerns (except that Half-Life one, is there another?)
Actually there are at least three western mods that I know of for current games. Definitely more than one, at any rate.
I think it’s because the Western ethic can be translated into other genres, often sci-fi, pretty easily. Lone gunslinger, desperados, saloon, nervous townspeople, etc. It’s the setting, the dusty old western town, that doesn’t seem to resonate with people anymore.
And me. I’d love to see a western RPG (or another western shooter). Although I’d really love to see almost any RPG that explores something outside the D&D-style fantasy genre. Not that I dislike fantasy, but when you have nothing to drink except milkshakes, you start to crave something (anything) other than a milkshake.
Bump up.
I still want to see a PC RPG made of Deadlands. Have any of you seen the paper RPG?
As ever,
Loyd Case
It doesn’t? Sure it does… Westerns are dead and plenty of people see them as a mass of tired, uncool, cliches. Sad to say, I don’t think anybody likes them except me and you. [/quote]
Me too! I’d love to see a “Western RPG”, or at least, I think I do. The idea of it really appeals to me. There was a really enjoyable game for the Atari ST named “Lost Dutchman mine” that was sort of like an RPG, but more like an adventure game. I loved “Outlaws”. Every once in a while I try to figure out how to get all those crappy American Lazer Game westerns to work on a modern PC, and I’m waiting with open arms for “Red Dead whatever” for the PS2.
However, I’m not sure an actual RPG would work. I’ve tried to design one many times, but I think there are several problems:
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The majesty of the west. Driving through the western states gives one a real sense of awe about the scenery, and spurns all sorts of ideas about what would make a good game. The trouble is, translating that “majesty” comes down to a few buttes, mesas, and maybe an arch or two. I think the sheer vastness of the west is what creates these visions of a grand adventure, and that vastness is also the undoing of any game that tries to recreate it.
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Combat. Aside from shooting at “evil soldiers”, Native Americans", Trappers", Outlaws", “Banditos”, Wolfs", and “Bears” what else would you fight?
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Magic: Beyond “Indian Shamen eating Poyote”, where else do you go?
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Grand bad guy: Do railroad barons really make good villians?
I think there certainly is a good “Western” game in the making, but it needs to be one that rejects the “Young Guns” sorts of cliches. I’d point to source material like Eastwood’s “High Plains Drifter”. It’s set in the west, but its story is more HP Lovecraft than High Noon. Take a compelling story, set in the west, add folklore and fantastic beings from America’s history, and I think it could work.
-Steve
I played Law of the West back on the C64. It wasn’t really an RPG. You really just navigated a series of conversations and then I think would have to shoot people occasionally. But the whole game consisted of this one sort of splash-frame, IIRC, of your guy standing there talking to whoever. No mobility, no stats, etc.
I guess you could say the conversation part is like an RPG – in fact, ahead of its time, similar to later Infinity Engine games and other RPGs with pre-selected answers – but there was nothing else to the gameplay.
Weird little game, that was…
- Magic: Beyond “Indian Shamen eating Poyote”, where else do you go?
Well, you could take the Indian Shaman thing pretty far if you really wanted to. I.e. incorporate actual elements of Native American mythology.
But does an RPG have to have magic? We should examine this assumption. One of the advantages I suppose of sci-fi is that there is so much stuff that is really just magic-by-another-name (medikit, force fields, nanobots, psi-powers etc.). Still, I’m not sure an RPG can’t succeed without this dimension.
If you think about it, a lot of RPG magic tends to boil down to either a) heavy artillery (i.e. fireball spells), and b) healing. In relatively modern settings (i.e. those with explosives/grenades) there are real-world referents to both of these things. You can have actual artillery for your artillery (though that might not mesh with a small-party combat system). Maybe an engineer/explosives guy could substitute for the wizard. For healing, you have medikits, first aid, antidotes, that sort of thing.
Still, there are other functions magic often serves in an RPG. It’s kind of a “catch all” for abilities that there is no other way to implement. Teleportation, invisibility, strengthening, weakening, quickening, slowing. A lot of these things would not be doable without some gooey system (magic, the Force, psi-powers, whatever) to take care of them.
I’d like to think RPG devs could find work-arounds, or just make interesting gameplay without these gooey elements. Up to a point this has already been seen in, say, JA2, or Fallout which has a relatively low “magic” component. Think outside the box, people! :)
I actually started playing Outlaws for the first time last night (found a jewel case copy for a few bucks). Ignoring the graphics of its era, it still doesn’t hold up very well. Key hunt level design? Urgh. At least it has a western twist, with steel, iron & brass keys instead of red, blue and yellow. There’s even an occasional special key, like the crowbar.
It has taught me that the low tech western era can create some design problems. In Doom, I could accept that I needed a key card to get past a door, since its Ultra Space Alloy ™ was resistant to my plasma rifle. I do not make the same assumption when a wooden train door is “stuck” and survives a stick of dynamite without a scratch. A shotgun blast was a fine way to open a door in Rogue Spear, but no such luck here. “Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?” According to this game, no.
For other western shooters, has anyone spent any time with the mods like Western Quake 3? These are appealing to me in a Cowboy Shooting sense, but there’s not much RPG there.
- Combat. Aside from shooting at “evil soldiers”, Native Americans", Trappers", Outlaws", “Banditos”, Wolfs", and “Bears” what else would you fight?
Well again let’s look at Fallout. Pretty slim bestiary if memory serves. Deathclaws, Radscorpions, a couple other creatures, but apart from that it boils down to a) human bad guys, and b) mutant bad guys (who are really just super-strong human bad guys).
So, in a Western setting, you might have the usual small beasties – wolves, cougars, bears, coyotes, etc. Then you have Indians of various ranks – soldiers, Shamans (this would require enhanced magic/mythological elements I suppose), Tougher Soldiers (call them Spirit Warriors or something). You can also have Bandidos, American soldiers (of various ranks and capabilities), Mexican soldiers (ditto), digruntled Confederates, etc.
Actually just reading that back to myself that does seem pretty dry. :? But again, were there really that many swell monsters in Fallout? Deathclaws were cool, but maybe in a Western you could have chupacabras or mythological Thunderbirds or something. I dunno…
There was a Pen & Paper RPG I saw years back that was set in sort of an X-files version of the Old West. Magic, supernatural, ghosts, etc., plus cowboys and Indians and Pinkerton Detectives and such. Then you can go the “Wild Wild West” pseudo-steampunk-sci-fi route if you want to spice things up…
You could use a system of abstracted overland travel, ala Fallout or Arcanum. I thought it worked well in both games, giving you a sense of the world’s scale without having to model every last inch of it.
- Combat. Aside from shooting at “evil soldiers”, Native Americans", Trappers", Outlaws", “Banditos”, Wolfs", and “Bears” what else would you fight?
I’m not sure that you’d need the sort of variety that you have in fantasy RPGs, here. A lot of your encounters would be with humans of one kind of another. There’s plenty of room for variety there.
But there are a number of wild animals you could use as well–snakes, cougars, cows… you’d have to have a “cattle stampede” random encounter in the game, after all.
- Magic: Beyond “Indian Shamen eating Poyote”, where else do you go?
Again, I’m not sure that you need to go anywhere. Can’t you have an RPG without magic? The idea is to branch out from the hackneyed fantasy schtick, not to try to shoehorn fantasy conventions into other genres. I’d be okay with seeing some literally interpreted folklore in the game, but I don’t think you’d need wizards in Indian clothing.
- Grand bad guy: Do railroad barons really make good villians?
Sure. As do outlaws, corrupt lawmen, Mexicans…
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