If we were playing around a physical table, it would all be out in the open-I suppose you could pass notes or whatever?
Exactly (notes and such). But every game that goes through the PBF-prism has to adjust a bit to the PBF-prism, IMO. People can PM (or email, or Discord or whatever, if they are connected there). And the game moves slower (as its PBF, not FTF), so people are more likely to talk. And talk is likely to lead to game-talk, etc. Its easier to go with the flow of the current than have the game moderator forced into becoming a PM-cop. IMO, of course.
Oh, sure, and I’m not advocating for such, just speaking to the intentions of the physical game. Distortions are inevitable given the format. (I’ve no idea how well it will work as a forum game so will be watching with interest.)
That said, if deals are made privately, there’s less of a chance of someone being able to counter with a better offer, or for someone to interfere and explain why they think such-and-such a deal isn’t one that should be agreed to.
Again, not being prescriptive here - just pointing out pitfalls to be aware of and account for.
Yeah, speaking purely from PBF experience (not to Westphalia per se) there are enough lulls in play where everybody is hitting everybody up with offers, pleas, threats, etc.
When I moderated the aborted Empires in Arms game I 1.) was a pure moderator and 2.) only had one rule - everyone had to cc me on negotiations for the color “write ups”. :) With the caveat that I wouldn’t, as the GM, dime out anyone who wuz backstabbin’, double-dealin’ or whatevs.
There was soooooo much more “back room” diplomacy (and the use of the diplomatic “black arts”) than in a ftf game. Because of the lulls in time.
Ultimately it had no real in-game effect, IMO. But it sure was fun. :) And fun to watch. I like to watch (Chauncey, Being There).
New to these forums so I’m not sure if briefly veering off-topic is kosher or not, but man, what a wonderful movie Being There is, and what an absolutely committed performance that Sellars gives in it. Best work for him and Ashby alike.
This is a good point, and probably worth doing regardless of whether there’s pms or not
We “grogs” tend to veer. :) Check out the Founding Fathers Game threads (I was in the first)
President Dallas Remembers, Voice in the Sky Man (@CF_Kane)!
or the failed, poor shadow of an Empires in Arms thread. Twas a noble attempt.
Speaking of PBF-isms, God Voice Man (@CF_Kane), are we using the Bold (action or order, not conversation) methodology?
This is my reason for thinking that open diplomacy might be more interesting. Everyone, including the audience, gets to see the deal making in real time. But this is not a battle I’m going to win, and I’m certainly not going to be PM cop, so I’ll let it lie.
That seems appropriate, President Dallas.
I think i’d actually prefer doing everything in public if at all possible. Obviously we can’t all be PM cops, but i’d like to play it just as intended- honestly, hidden talk makes it pretty easy to run and coordinate coalitions in a way that would be very difficult in public.
Do we want to vote on only public vs allowing some private negotiating?
I continue my feud against the @Ironsight @Navaronegun federalist bloc and vote for open negotiations
(I believe this is called the Woodrow Wilson variant in Diplomacy)
Don’t care.
Ah how quickly they forget. You jumped ship on us, and payed the price. I’ll vote private since it was so much fun planning revenge on @Cuthbert in secret and watching our plans come to fruition. :)
I’m in favor of pubic negotiations.
I count:
Public: Panzeh, Kolbex, Cuthbert
Private: Ironsight
Don’t Care: Navaronegun.
My vote doesn’t matter at this point, but I lean towards public.
If it seems to be a disaster, we can revisit later in the game or in a future game, if we like it and it works on the forum.
Still waiting.
This reminds me a bit of Struggle of Empires, an old Martin Wallace design. You’d take an unrest token every time you lost a unit or borrowed money, and if you went over 20 you automatically lost no matter how many points you had. Such a classic.
Yeah, i’ve got that one coming in at some point, it’s interesting how that works.