What are you waiting for: 10 good guys shot by US troops...?

Why is there no outcry? What are you guys waiting for? Doesn’t anyone want to tackle this one, or is it just too big a softball?

Funeral for 10 Iraqi Police Officers Draws Angry Crowd

ALLUJA, Iraq, Sept. 13 — Ten Iraqi security officers were buried here today in chaotic ceremonies as more witnesses to the scene in which they died contended that the officers had been killed by American troops at very close range even though they offered no resistance.

Two more officers died today of wounds from the shooting, which occurred early Friday after three vehicles filled with Iraqi security officers crossed paths with an American patrol outside a hospital near Falluja. Their deaths raised the number killed in the shooting to 11, including a Jordanian hospital worker. No American soldiers were wounded in the incident, the United States military said today.

The military acknowledged today that solders from the Third Armored Cavalry Regiment had fired on the Iraqis and apologized for the officers’ deaths. “We wish to express our deep regret for this incident to the families that have lost loved ones and express our sincerest condolences,” said Lt. Col. George Krivo. He said the soldiers had fired only after being attacked “from a truck by unknown forces.”

What’s wrong with you people? Killing Iraqi police is not going to win hearts and minds.

Gee, mulligan, maybe we support our troops but not the idiots that put them in harm’s way looking for imaginary weapons of mass destruction? It’s war, shit happens.

[token reply] The US sucks! [/token reply]

See, this is what happens when you take US troops trained to win on the battlefield and turn them into policeman. It takes training before deployment to give combat troops the skills to act as peacekeepers, and these guys didn’t have it.

Overall, its an outgrowth of “what, we have to plan for what happens after we take over Iraq???” mentality that plagued the Bush administration. They were so wrapped up in the neocon “we’ll just whistle up a democracy and everything will be ok” that they’ve done a good job screwing up the occupation.

Hopefully, we’ll get things turned around now that we’ve learned some hard lessons. We also have to hope that the Iraqi people decide that its in everyone interest for us to stay there.

Today on meet the press or some similar show, someone was making the point that many people in the U.S. don’t seem to think of this as a war. They may say they do, and even call it the “War on Terrorism” but they really think of it as a sort of police action, or even less. These people would then think we should be doing what Europe has done for years, which is cope with terrorism, rather than actively fight it, since it isn’t a real enemy…in the sense of a war enemy. We can’t just go to war and fight it. Budget deficits seem misguided because we can’t wage a war on such people. Other people think of it as a real war, and these people accept that there will be casualties, both innocent and non-innocent, because, as you said, it’s war, shit happens. They think budget deficits are to be expected because that’s what happens in war.

I’d say that most American’s really do see it as a war and don’t get overly upset when people die over there, whether ours or theirs, or someone else’s people. We are getting reports of U.S. soldiers dying just about every day, more than there were during the actual invasion of Iraq. But the public outcry seems to be pretty low. There aren’t any big protests or anything, like there was with Vietnam. As for the budget deficit, I bet most Americans don’t even know about it, and if they did they probably wouldn’t care too much. They are far more worried about their own budget deficits.

Course I could be wrong!!!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&ncid=1802&e=1&u=/washpost/20030914/ts_washpost/a7030_2003sep13

What’s to say? I think most folks are against friendly fire. It’s not like it was policy.

Fearless prediction: As US casualties mount over time, there will begin to be a groundswell of public opinion along the lines of “Bring our troops home!” There may well be protests. It may become a “quagmire” although it hasn’t reached that stage yet.

I remember seeing an article a while back where the Pentagon dismantled its office of peacekeeping or something before the Iraq war.

The incident is even worse than that snippet reveals. From the same NYT article (didn’t know you read the times, Mulligan), let me quote a description of the events, given repeatedly by bystanders and the victims.

Suddenly and without warning, Mr. Adnan said, a United States military vehicle opened fire, putting several rounds through his Nissan pickup truck. Mr. Adnan was wounded in the shoulder and suffered cuts to his face from windshield glass. The other two vehicles pulled off more quickly, across the highway and just in front of the hospital, he said.

The American troops then began to concentrate fire on the two vehicles that had stopped in front of the hospital, Mr. Adnan said. As the Iraqi officers shouted, in English, “Police! Police!” the American soldiers responded, “No police!” and continued firing, he said. One volunteer police officer held up a badge with his force’s insignia, but the soldiers shot and killed him anyway, Mr. Adnan said.

one of the Iraqi soldiers fired their weapons, Mr. Adnan said. Mr. Jassim, the commander of the force, said he had been invited to the American base to pick up the bodies of the dead officers and had seen their rifles. In every case, the guns had their safeties on, Mr. Jassim said.

Wesam Mahmoud, another Iraqi officer who was in the truck driven by Mr. Adnan, corroborated Mr. Adnan’s story. “The Americans stepped back and started shooting at us,” he said.

The description of the shooting by Mr. Adnan and Mr. Mahmoud also closely matched that offered by Abdul Jalil, a member of the Fallujah volunteer police who was also wounded in the shootout.

Mr. Jalil, who was in a truck that was one of the two vehicles stopped in front of the hospital, said on Friday that American troops had fired from close range at his truck even though the Iraqis had desperately shouted, “Police! Police!” Eight of the 10 men in Mr. Jalil’s truck died, along with two of the five in the Iraqi police car near it, according to the officers.

This is one king sized mess. Here’s a link to the full article. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/international/middleeast/14IRAQ.html?th

Just keep your fingers crossed, why don’t you?

You really think we’re all excited and hoping it goes bad?

Yes. Sometimes that’s the impression I get. That “just enough failure” would be the preferable outcome for some.

Yes. Sometimes that’s the impression I get. That “just enough failure” would be the preferable outcome for some.[/quote]

Well, those are your biases playing up again. Not shying away from directly confronting what we’re doing wrong is the only possible way to fix what’s going wrong. Hiding our heads in the sand and pretending that everything is going wonderfully as you seem to want us to do, is the best possible prescription for catastrophic failure.

Yes, of course. It’s always me that’s biased, and you all that are simply misunderstood visionaries with THE TRUTH in their hands. Whatever.

The troops should be brought before a Court of Inquiry and the truth should be brought out. Whoever ordered the firings without verifying enemy status may be dishonorably discharged at the very least, depending on circumstances.

This thread is not about killing some Iraqis by accident. It’s about ruffling feathers.

Aren’t we supposed to be hiring, training, and equiping the ‘new’ Iraqi police? How hard would it be to equip them with a car that says “POLICE”? And why would they just assume they could launch themselves through a US checkpoint without taking fire? They must be complete idiots.

This article is, not suprisingly, devoid of any facts of the incident, save that 10 iraqis were killed. There’s no description of exactly or even vaguely what took place. Radio and TV reports were that they ran through a checkpoint chasing an ‘outlaw’. Is this assumption or fact? If they were chasing a vehicle, wouldn’t the Americans have also shot up the pursued vehicle? Just another example of shoddy underreporting of a tragic incident to encite shok and awe in the american attitude towards the war.

FALLUJAH, Iraq - U.S. soldiers mistakenly opened fire on uniformed Iraqi policemen chasing highway bandits at night, killing eight officers and a Jordanian security guard and wounding nine other people Friday in this dangerous “Sunni Triangle” city near Baghdad, Iraqi police said.

Fallujah police took fire from the U.S. troops about 1:30 a.m. as about 25 uniformed policemen in two pickup trucks and a sedan were chasing a white BMW known to have been used by highway bandits, said Asem Mohammed, a 23-year-old police sergeant who was among the wounded.

Two of the vehicles pursuing the bandits were painted in the blue and white colors of the Iraqi police, while the pickup truck with the gun mounted on it was white.

As the chase neared a checkpoint near the Jordanian Hospital, the police turned around after losing sight of their quarry, and a nearby American patrol opened fire, Mohammed said.

“We were chasing a white BMW with bandits. We turned around in front of Jordanian Hospital and some American forces started shooting at us,” Mohammed said. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=3&u=/ap/20030912/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

How’s that? You hiding your head in shame yet? Good.

They were clearly marked as police, but the troops shot them up anyway.

Do you have a source for this? I haven’t seen anything about the police trying to barrell through a US checkpoint. All the accounts I’ve read have been from the surviving Iraqis and each seem to indicate they were drving at high speed to catch a white BMW when they came under fire from US trooops. The US military has given few details, saying basically that they thought they were coming under attack from unknown forces and returned fire.

Well, maybe you just don’t like the facts being reported. Or maybe you don’t find Iraqi sources credible, and would like your accounts to come from the Americans. Whatever, there are plenty of facts in the article.