2941

Dogs don’t exist because there are still wolves. I guess when you’re stupid that sort of “logic” helps you sleep at night.

2942

That’s actually a poor example, not least because of the recent studies into how little the Wolf and Dog genome differ and the detailed studies into i.e. domesticated foxes (It took 35 years for the Silver Fox, for example).

2943

The implicit statements you’re making here is that the DNA of any single single-celled organism is vastly different from every multi-celled one. Is that true?

Humans and Chimps are extremely closed related (with crosses being theoretically possible). I guess we’re also a poor example?

2944

Uh? No, didn’t say that about single celled vs multi-cell organism.

Selection managed to produce tame Silver Foxes in 40 generations, and something like 40 genes difference from their vicious counterparts in the same source population (a fur farm (edit; not “fir”. Bad voice type!). So considerably less difference than Humans and Chimps.

(There seems to be some significant changes to brain chemistry associated with those genes - http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(05)01327-8 )

2945

Yes you did.

Dogs don’t exist because there are still wolves. I guess when you’re stupid that sort of “logic” helps you sleep at night.

That’s actually a poor example, not least because of the recent studies into how little the Wolf and Dog genome differ.

A poor example is one that doesn’t apply or could be improved somehow.
You’ve stated that Dogs/Wolves are a poor example because their genomes are similar.

So if this example is one that doesn’t apply, and you’ve pointed out the reason, then the reason it’s bad is because of that single reason you’ve pointed out?

You’re stating that the important factor, when making examples and analogies for explaining why single and multi-celled organisms live side by side, is all down to genome-difference. You’re stating, that for an example to be “good” it must show an example of two animals with a common ancestor that currently have a very different genome (by whatever unit of measure). And that for an example to be “poor” it shows animals with a common ancestor that have a very similar genome.

I don’t know why you’re stating that good examples must have very different genomes. The implication is that, you know, for a certainty, that the genome differences between single- and multi-celled organisms are greater than the differences between Wolves/Dogs or Wild/Tame foxes? (with whatever unit of measure you wish to use).

2946

You’re using two quotes, one of which is mine and one is not.

You are making shit up.

2947

Congratulations on noticing that this quote:

Dogs don’t exist because there are still wolves. I guess when you’re stupid that sort of “logic” helps you sleep at night.

is not written by you. It was, infact, written by someone else. At no point did I intend for this quote to be ascribed to you. Yes, I ham-fistedly didn’t attach a name to it, but I would suspect that every single person reading my post, and more importantly you yourself, would recognise it as the POST YOU REPLIED TO WITH THE SECOND THING I QUOTED.

Here it is re-represented for you:

Can you understand it now?

How? You said it was a poor example, and you said it was poor because of “how little the Wolf and Dog genome differ”. You said this and it’s even quoted. Do you stand by this claim? If so: What unit of measurement are you using for this difference? Can we apply that same unit of measurement to chips-humans and any single-celled organism with any other multi-celled organism?

2948

Now you are trying to attribute shit to TWO people who never said it!
Rant away, but don’t pretend it has anything to do with what I typed. (…dogs and wolves, period)

2949

I can’t believe you’re denying posting this exact sentence when it’s plain for all to see on the forum. We need to go back to basics.

Question 1: Do you agree that the following forum posts exist?

Question 2: Do you agree that the bottom quote (your post) was a direct reply to the top quote?

Question 3: So far, how much of question 1 and 2 is “shit” that “people never said”?

2950

Keep conflating two different authors.

You never do the “basics” of reading what people posted, not talking about something else entirely and then whining when they don’t play along with your nonsense.

  1. Where did I talk about microbes?
  2. Where did I disagree with ShivaX on his general point?
  3. Did you read this post?
2951

This thread has started to induce my nerd-rage ;)

2952

I love that this petty nerd argument is in the nerd rage thread! I fucking go there, too, so do not construe this as veiled criticism. It’s just that I feel the irony needs a bit of amplification.

Rage on you beautiful nerds! :)

2953

2954

Good lord, where the hell is Ogre’s left eye pointing? I never noticed that before.

ObNerdrage: When in the gas station and pre-paying for fuel, I would like to specify a gallon amount of a particular grade. It seems this presents arithmetical and procedural difficulties that cashiers are not able to solve by themselves.

2955

Lots o’ thoughts on that:

  1. Why? 99.314159% of the time, I’m filling the tank. Even when I’m buying gas for my snowblower, it’s the amount that will fit in the gas can. I can’t think of a time that I’ve wanted to specify a precise volume, rather than “what fits.”

  2. Prepaying is a pain in the ass. Paying at the pump with a credit card makes all gas transactions easier - including buying a specific amount of gas, if you want to do that.

  3. If the cashier can’t do the multiplication, surely you can. The price is right there. If it weren’t absolutely trivial and I wanted to do this, I generally have a device with me that will act as a calculator. The cashier might give you the stink-eye for saying “I want $3.78 on pump 3,” but they can probably enter that.

  4. If they can’t specify that amount… well, you just have to knuckle under and do what pre-paying customers who are filling up do. Overpay and then go back for change. Or specify a dollar amount that’s “close enough,” if a fraction over or under doesn’t matter.

2956

Pre-pay is a thing in America still?

(You can drive off without paying if you like in the UK. But your number plate is now on a list and will ring alarm bells any time you go into another petrol station)

2957

I don’t know about elsewhere but credit card theft is a problem here. Guy unlocks the pump, hooks up a card reader. Everyone that swipes a card is screwed. So you have to be careful, check that the seal on the pump isn’t broken. Or pay inside.

2958

They’re not really screwed though. If someone manages to swipe the information, you’re not liable for any purchases he might make with it. None at all these days, they don’t even have the minimum $50 amount anymore.

2959

It’s also very unusual for card readers to be on the pump in the UK - you go into the shop to pay, or to the payment window late at night.

Gus - That changes with Chip and Pin (or chip and sign), though. A good reason why it’s often called “chip and spin” is that liability rests with the end-user or retailer, not the bank.

i.e. http://www.theidm.com/resources/journal/legal-and-regulatory-updates/legal-and-regulatory-update-chip-and-spin-shifting-burdens-and-new-threats-in-retail-card-fraud-shelagh-gaskill-gavin-mcginty-and-james-pratt-journal-of-direct-data-and-digital-marketing-practice-vol-7-no-2/

“The recent introduction of chip and PIN will not reduce the overall level of card fraud, but it will shift its impact from traditional retail to online or mail order.”

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sjm217/talks/

“Card fraud is going up, despite the wider deployment of Chip and PIN.”

Also “The Economics of Payment Card Security and Shifting Fraud Liability” from that page, and others, etc.

(Disclaimer - I’m an professional acquittance of Steven J. Murdoch)

Net result: 47% (up from 44% in 2011) of people subject to fraud do NOT get their money back in the UK.

2960

Yes, hence my “solve by themselves” qualifier. I did the multiplication for them, but then, I wasn’t hampered by a cash register refusing to solve the problem for me.

And sure, there are plenty of reasons not to pre-pay, all of which are beside the point that “11 gallons of high test” shouldn’t be a difficult negotiation for a gas station to undertake. (I actually didn’t know that it’s normal to overpay, fill up, and then go back in and ask for change. That’s just perverse.)

Bah. Normally I’d use my card like everyone else, but I was filling up on a road trip and my bank confounded the transaction, so I was paying cash up front.