What is your current favorite Roguelike? [Or all things roguelike]


Holy shit, 4 hours. Still, lord knows I could use the help. Cogmind is good but tough.


I’ll be offering a 15-DVD set on getting started with Stone Soup. Be sure to pick up the 7 volume companion set of books.


Welcome to the Congressional Library of Dwarf Fortress Tutorial. No, not plural, singular.


Did i mention my Cataclysm: DDA Tutorial series was at episode 173 when i put it on hiatus? <------ not a joke


Do I get a certificate if I watch them all?


For Cogmind, this video is a nice introduction I thought. It isn’t very time-effective, but it is showing capital aspects of the game, and hinting at others without spoiling them:

He did a second video, which is much less interesting as he gets carried away and absorbed into his own game.


Gameplay loop isn’t so bad because unlocking all the upgrades and finding loot is addictive and will make you pretty powerful in the end. Not really a good roguelike though. It felt like it had more in common with SHMUPs if they were trapped inside a castlevania game. (bullet avoidance ho!). Also one of the last classes you unlock is a flying dragon thing.


I don’t remember the game being that hard, except there were boss rematches with more dificult versions. Those were tough.


Of the more recent roguelikes I’ve played that are of the classic genre, I’d have to rate the top four as:

  1. Caves of QUD
  2. TOME
  3. Dungeonmans
  4. Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead

In terms of how good it is and how much fun it is, I would actually have rated Cataclysm as my #1 but the learning curve there is a tough one. There’s just so much to learn. Once you get though it, though, it’s a blast to play. You do need to watch the first few of those Vormithrax tutorials when you start playing though.


It would be addictive if it didn’t rapidly exceed my ability to continue with it. That’s my big problem with it.


No certificate but you’ll certainly be certifiable!

Disclaimer: I’m a big fan of CDDA and Vorm’s videos too.


So when people say TOME, do they mean…

  1. Tales of Middle-earth


  1. Tales of Maj’Eyal

Asking for a friend.


Tales of Maj’Eyal


Thanks for alerting me to the existence of 1!


Tales of Middle Earth is what it used to be called before Tolkein’s lawyers knocked at the door.


That’s interesting, I didn’t know that. I was referring to a LOTR mod for AOE 2 that had a full release only a few months ago. It looks great (albeit not thread related)!


There is extremely little continuity between TOME 2 (Tales of Middle-Earth) and TOME 4 (Tales of Maj’Eyal). The former is an Angband revamp that adds a lot of complexity and overworld maps and stuff and leans hard into the Tolkien inspiration of the base game, and the latter is a completely unique graphical roguelike with extremely varied classes, tactical combat, an entirely new setting, etc. I mean, the one did evolve into the other over many years, but you’d really never know it comparing the two.


I’m playing Dungeonmans, and even if it has some addicting quality at first, as you kill & loot shit, it isn’t convincing me:

-Supposing you aren’t killed early and play conservatively, the first 5 hours of a run are a bit boring, too easy.
-Runs are indeed too long, given you mostly juggle the same 3-4 abilities usually in a single run. As part of that, you level too slowly from level 6 onwards, and the gameplay gets stale because of that. The game should be shorter and you should level up a bit faster, so you always get new skills every x time to play around.
-I dislike games where 85% of the combat is ‘filler’, most of the time in ‘adventurous’ dungeons I don’t bother see what type of enemies I’m hitting or what abilities do they have, I just advance and kill everything, letting the auto-target select whatever enemy.
-I dislike games with this resting system, there is no penalty for using it, it’s basically the turn-based equivalent of health-regeneration. Advance a bit, kill 3-4 enemies, rest, rinse, repeat. Sometimes you are interrupted but it’s a single monster so you kill it without problems and rest again.
-You may say at this point I should go to a harder dungeon or raise the difficulty, but it’s hard to skip dungeons that have valuable xp, and the difficulty balance is tricky: bosses are much harder than the rest of the game, so if I raise the difficulty, the moment I will reach a boss the game will be too hard, not too easy.
-Ironically this doesn’t mean I don’t die, some of my deaths (outside bosses) came because the game trains me to fall in a zen-like status of advancing and killing shit without looking at numbers or even using most abilities, and then a special enemy kills me or poisoner gets me without me noticing the poison drain 80% of my health. Even if I had dozens of consumables to avoid my death. It’s a type of game design that would be more appropriate with a quicksave system, instead of the roguelike (one and done). A small thing, but having the health bar tucked to the right corner also affects me, increasing this dumb mistakes I make.
-There are some cheap kills like the top of the towers where you fight a boss, unlike any other dungeons before, the stairs magically disappear so you cannot retreat when you see that floor level is too high for you.
-95% of the loot is crap, garbage fated to be sold or be scrapped in the academy. I also dislike this kind of ‘looting’ model. I don’t even bother looking at what I’m picking from the ground, I just clear up two or three dungeons in a row and then go back to identify everything in one go, favorite a pair of pieces maybe, and the throw everything else.
-The overworld map lacks info, the number system is crap to see what is a town and what a dungeon (why not use small icons?) so you have to use the filters enabling and disable them. To show level of dungeon is, and what level of town is (merchandise level, like 4/6) would also a good idea.
-The inventory system is crap: no way to order by rating, gold, number of items (for consumables) or any other way.


I still have on my site a compiled Windows version of Tome 2.3.5 + the Theme expansion thing. http://cesspit.net/drupal/node/2145/

Though by default it uses a rather tiny font: http://www.cesspit.net/misc/prog/tome4.gif

More or less “recent” since it’s from 2015. I thought there was some recent work to port it to C++, but they were messing directly with the game, for example by removing alchemy.

The version I have should be just bugfixes over the original.


I’m trying Tangledeep and I’m liking it better than Dungeonmans. It has a old JRPG vibe in the artwhich didn’t convince me at first, I don’t have nostalgia for those games, but in the end It fixes most of my complaints I wrote ibefore:

-It has a few more classes than Dungeonmans, 12, and they are more original, they aren’t the typical warrior/archer/wizard, so it’s more in my style (Floramancer, Edge Thane, Soulkeeper…). Like Dungeonmans, you can mix them up.
-The classes, apart from more interesting, are more ‘active’, with more active and interesting abilities, one unique passive, and you gain the skills way faster (at least, I have 7 after 70 minutes)
-Balance wise it’s way too early to say anything, but the difficulty seems smoother, without strange ups and downs, while at the same time not being brainless because the next point.
-It doesn’t use the rest system from Dungeonmans, but traditional food/health potions. They are fountains that give you extra health recharges to the health potion, and an interesting powerup system, where fallen enemies may drop orb that give you a bit of stamina or energy. In addition between floors there can be a small map with a side quest or a fire camp, you can use the camp once to refill your stats or to cook a recipe.
-It has a convenient ‘summon town portal’, needs 8 turns to charge. It also can be used to return to the start of the floor.
-It has several sorting methods for the inventory.
-Itemization is also better, it doesn’t flood the player with garbage loot. I have a dozen items and 13 consumables, not 120.
-Weapons are more interesting, instead of being a simple damage number and a collection of random attributes, they also have a special ability. Daggers do more damage in successive attacks, claymore can counter when parrying, Iron claws have a damage bonus depending of the health lost recently, etc. Weapons also have learn-able unique abilities depending of the weapon type.
On the other hand there seems to be less variety of weapons.
-Enemies are also a bit more interesting, like Dungeonmans they can have abilities, but it feels they have a bit more identity here.
-It has a meta-progression system too.
-It has a good number of starting options (here it’s better to put some screenshots), I think they accommodate everyone:

-A little thing, but I like having some simple animations in this type of game. The ‘idle’ animations of the characters give them much more life than the static sprites of Dungeonmans.