What should have israel done instead?

John_Many_Jars · 2011-12-29T12:19:19.000Z

Second only to your grasp of tone.

Lum · 2012-01-01T23:08:36.000Z

Ultra-Orthodox protesters in Israel: “not letting us run the place like Iran: TOTALLY THE HOLOCAUST”

Israel’s defense minister, Ehud Barak, described the scenes at the protest as “shocking and appalling.”

“The use of yellow patches and small children raising their hands in surrender crosses a red line which the ultra-Orthodox leadership, who are largely responsible people, must not accept,” he added in a statement.

Avner Shalev, chairman of Yad Vashem, Israel’s official Holocaust remembrance authority, condemned the use of symbols of the Holocaust, telling Israel Radio that it was “unacceptable.”

Ultra-Orthodox men and boys from the most stringent sects routinely curse the Israeli police as “Nazis” during confrontations. They and other political groups on the far right and left of Israeli society have also used Holocaust imagery in the past.

Lizard_King · 2012-01-01T23:14:16.000Z

what the

Organizers of Saturday’s protest belong to ultra-Orthodox groups that are virulently anti-Zionist. Their presence in Jerusalem predated the establishment of modern Israel in 1948, and they believe that there should be no Jewish state until the Messiah comes.

Kafka would have tossed these twists aside as awkwardly implausible.

Foxstab · 2012-01-02T03:55:25.000Z

Welcome to IsraHell, v3.5 2012!

Jag · 2012-01-02T06:31:35.000Z

Lum:

Ultra-Orthodox protesters in Israel: “not letting us run the place like Iran: TOTALLY THE HOLOCAUST”

These people are seriously sick. Hopefully the country will finally wake up and realize how wacked this ultra religious faction is and weaken their hold on the govt. Not sure that Livni is the answer either, but she can’t be worse. It’s also interesting that so many of these ultra-orthodox are American transplants.

The_Mad_Hatter · 2012-01-02T06:51:55.000Z

Lizard_King:

what the

Kafka would have tossed these twists aside as awkwardly implausible.

Zionism began as a purely secular movement. The association with Orthodox Judaism came after the foundation of Israel, and is more a marriage of convenience then anything else.

Foxstab · 2012-01-02T07:54:44.000Z

Jag:

These people are seriously sick.

You have no idea.

Jag:

Hopefully the country will finally wake up and realize how wacked this ultra religious faction is and weaken their hold on the govt. Not sure that Livni is the answer either, but she can’t be worse. It’s also interesting that so many of these ultra-orthodox are American transplants.

Sadly, it’s easier said than done. This has been going on for a couple of decades now.
The problem with dealing with these types in a small democracy is that:

They breed like rabbits = massive voting power.
They’re ignorant and secluded = their community leaders (who fight amongst themselves vying for power, AKA money) get to direct that torrent however they wish, this nets them in turn a lot of political dictating power.

Jag · 2012-01-02T08:11:10.000Z

I’ve been to those neighborhoods. It felt like a 19th century shtetl. I don’t get it, but that’s why they are considered extremists.

Dawn_Falcon · 2012-01-02T09:45:41.000Z

The Mad Hatter:

Zionism began as a purely secular movement.

Untrue. However, the Haredi are NOT and never have been part of the religious Zionist movement.

Moreover, the people in that article? Don’t vote. They don’t believe in the State of Israel, and won’t “legitimise” it by voting. There are radical religious voters, but they’re a different faction(s - they disagree among themselves a lot as well).

Houngan · 2012-01-02T13:53:02.000Z

Organizers of Saturday’s protest belong to ultra-Orthodox groups that are virulently anti-Zionist. Their presence in Jerusalem predated the establishment of modern Israel in 1948, and they believe that there should be no Jewish state until the Messiah comes.

Huh, so they’re anti-Semites like Ron Paul and Ahmedenijad. Did not see that one coming.

H.

Lum · 2012-01-02T14:02:10.000Z

en.wikipedia.org

Neturei Karta

Neturei Karta (Jewish Babylonian Aramaic: נָטוֹרֵי קַרְתָּא nāṭōrē qarṯā, literally "Guardians of the City") is a religious group of Haredi Jews, formally created in Jerusalem, British Mandate of Palestine, in 1938, splitting off from Agudas Yisrael. Neturei Karta opposes secular Zionism and calls for a dismantling of the State of Israel, in the belief that Jews are forbidden to have their own state until the coming of the Jewish Messiah. While the Neturei Karta consider themselves true J In Is...

They’ve come up before - they have a contingent in the US, and have shown up at events run by Iran and Hamas looking like 19th century shtetl Jews giving anti-semitic ranters cover by saying “look, we’re so Jewish it hurts and we hate Israel too!”

John_Many_Jars · 2013-01-29T15:33:14.000Z

Here’s a heartwarming story about two Arab-American girls visiting Israel.

Mondoweiss – 2 Jun 12

‘Do you feel more Arab or more American?’: Two women’s story of being detained...

Ben Gurion Airport I am an American citizen. I went to American schools my entire life, graduated from an American university and work as an architect in New York City. Why was this happening to me…

arrendek · 2013-01-30T08:34:18.000Z

Thanks, I needed to be pissed off before going out to lunch. I can see the conversation now: “Is Israel the devil or what?”

John_Many_Jars · 2013-01-30T10:32:59.000Z

arrendek:

Thanks, I needed to be pissed off before going out to lunch. I can see the conversation now: “Is Israel the devil or what?”

That’s what pisses you off when you read that story?

Starlight · 2013-01-30T10:55:25.000Z

Yea, that’s pretty mild compared to what a couple of my friends who got denied entry to the USA got.

arrendek · 2013-01-30T11:10:32.000Z

No, I’m not pissed off that you got me pissed off by posting that story, if that’s what you’re saying. I’m saying that the story pissed me off, and added an anecdote which was confusing.

No, two people being denied entry to that country in a way that shamed them, made them stay in crap conditions, solely because of their race/culture/heritage/whathaveyou. That pisses me off.

John_Many_Jars · 2013-01-30T11:11:11.000Z

arrendek:

No, I’m not pissed off that you got me pissed off by posting that story, if that’s what you’re saying. I’m saying that the story pissed me off, and added an anecdote which was confusing.

No, two people being denied entry to that country in a way that shamed them, made them stay in crap conditions, solely because of their race/culture/heritage/whathaveyou. That pisses me off.

Right on!

Jag · 2013-01-30T11:18:41.000Z

At least they saved her from being Caterpillared. From a PR standpoint denying entry was probably better then having them martyred.

Starlight · 2013-01-30T11:34:04.000Z

arrendek:

solely because of their race/culture/heritage/whathaveyou. That pisses me off.

Well, you’d be pleased they use behavioural profiling then, not racial profiling.

arrendek · 2013-01-30T12:01:28.000Z

Starlight:

Well, you’d be pleased they use behavioural profiling then, not racial profiling.

The story posted does not lead me to believe they used behavioral profiling.

“What you want to come to Israel THREE TIMES?? You must be a terrorist.”

Yeah, right. If they were jews (from any place in the world) that wouldn’t have made them bat an eyebrow.