RichVR
3141
It’s funny. The OP asks What should Israel done instead. The he/she goes on to talk a bunch of crap. But h/s doesn’t actually state what Isreal did in the first place. Instead of what? Please clarify your point. Instead of bulldozing the Gaza? Instead of being Israel? What the hell is your point? Instead of not using 200 to 300 nuclear weapons to make their enemies a glass covered parking lot? What the fuck is your point?
Individuals do post offensive images. They’re going to be disciplined for it, if they’re in the Armed Forces. You can’t stop people being people if they’re Soldiers, you can just make sure they get punished if they do something like this.
You’re arguing that it can be stopped, which would only be true if you were to use draconian regulations on soldiers internet usage. You may wish to check the UK’s armed forces record in this respect, it’s not good! (Some soldiers were recently severely disciplined for posting racist comments online, for instance)
You’re right - this is the kind of dehumanised action you can expect of any army that’s been occupying a country for half a century. It’s not something unique to Israelis, except for the fact that they are the only country in the world that has kept people under a military occupation for that long.
Except, of course, that it’s hardly unique, hardly the longest and happens in conflict zones of any kind. But keep focusing on Israel, rather than China, or Russia, or…
You may want to try again. This is pretty softball stuff and this is the best you got? The West Bank is both de jure and de facto occupied by Israel. Name me a part of either Russia or China that isn’t officially part of the country and with its inhabitants at least de jure equal citizens.
Why would I want to revise the facts?
You’re insistent on splitting hairs, when in reality China occupies Tibet, and the Russians are quite repressive towards a number of peoples, including the Chechens and Tartars. And that’s before groups like the Maya, Kurds, Hmong and Tamils are considered elsewhere. Not to mention the very bad situation in quite a few Island nations - ONLY Tonga avoided colonialism. Then there’s the Bangladeshi complete denial of “Indigenous Peoples” (along with harassment and frequent arson attacks), and the mass expulsion of the San from their lands in 2002, in Botswana.]
I’m a dove in Isralie terms, but the kind of hyper-focus you’re showing is objectionable. It’s funny how ONLY one people’s plight becomes your laser focus. (In fact, there’s the little issue of the Bedouin in Israel as well, whose treatment is also completely unacceptable!)
Man, I had no idea the Russians and Chinese were oppressing the Tamils. It’s outrageous.
First, if you’re fine with equating Israel with China and Russia, then god help Israel.
Second, which ethnic groups in China and Russia are prevented from leaving small isolated areas by the military?
Third, at least pretending an ethnic group is a legitimate part of the national whole is preferable to pretending they are interlopers with no history in the region or rights as citizens of the occupying country. That’s not splitting hairs.
And, fourth, I brought the whole thing up, not because I’m an anti-semite, but because I think you’re an idiot. So I’m an anti-idiot. Draw the distinction.
Yes, that’s your claim. I don’t believe you, you protest too much as you focus only on Israel, using ridiculous comparisons. There we go, conclusion.
What comparisons have I made? And the thread topic is Israel, what else would we be talking about. And I think I’ve only protested that you’re an idiot.
Starlight, the situation in the West Bank and Gaza is not comparable to Tibet. The reason being is that in Tibet the people are citizens of China. They have the same rights and freedoms as everyone else. Yes, their desire for independence is repressed, but so would every other province in China be treated the same if they pushed for independence. Tibet is not under military occupation, it is a state that has been annexed whose indigenous people are (probably) opposed to the Chinese government.
If Israel actually annexed the West Bank and gave Palestinians citizenship and equal rights to Israelis, that would be a much, much less terrible thing they would do than what is currently happening vis a vis the illegal settlements aimed squarely at stealing land from the Palestinians without even offering them status parity with the people who steal it. You have Israeli settlers living on Palestinian land, in hilltop fortresses, who have all the freedoms of which the Palestinians have been deprived. How exactly does that compare with Tibet?
It’s not an unfair focus on Israel, Israel really is the only country to have a half century of military oppression.
I’d suggest you know very little about the actual situation in Tibet then. Leaving aside the lack of basic safeguards in the Chinese system to begin with. Tibet is most certainly an occupied land, under foreign rule - there are very few elements of autonomy.
A one-state solution is a non-starter, and suggesting it pushes things towards a highly unsatisfactory three-state solution, in practice. You see the news from the West Bank, while China keeps Tibet isolated. Because, among other things, there is substantial autonomy among the Palestinians. Which the Tibetans don’t have. Moreover, you are as ever completely ignoring the existence of the Israeli Arabs. And the minor fact that the Arab states have done very little for the Palestinians.
Jordan has refused to accept the West Bank is theirs since 1998 (and it was an annexation, in the first place, considered legal by only three countries!), and Egypt has never wanted Gaza back. And there’s constant criticism over East Jerusalem, which was annexed, and the residents given Permanent Resident status, with the option of Citizenship (which few have taken up, for political reasons) - so that’s never been a viable option, even if either the Israeli or Palestinian leadership would be able to find support for it.
The only real question is if we end up with a two or three state solution. And, bluntly, are you aware of the new Israeli government agreement? As in, today’s? HaTnuah’s in it, and it looks like Tzipi Livni will be leading the negotiations with the Palestinians. This is a VERY positive sign, compared to the hardline right wing stance of the last government - and hopefully there won’t be any more settlement building. (Because you might want to note I’m more than a little against that)
Tibet is no less autonomous than any other part of China. And probably not any more oppressed, mass human rights violations occur all over China. And while I’m all for self-determination, Tibet is at least as much a part of China as Scotland is Great Britain.
My knowledge of the internal situation in Tibet is absolutely immaterial, because it is a plain fact that Tibetans are citizens of China with the same rights as everyone else in the country. If it was a situation where Tibet was under military occupation like Palestine, then the Mandarin Chinese would be living in fortress settlements, free to work and live as every other Chinese citizen, while the Tibetans would be corralled onto the worst, most infertile scraps of land, and forced to pass through endless military checkpoints just to reach family in a neighbouring town.
You see, this is what countries normally do when they invade another country: they annex the land and make the people citizens, or they hand it back. What they don’t do is leave the people in some kind of purgatory for half a century while their land is slowly gobbled up by settlements they have no right to even visit, deprived of their basic human rights, and then complain when they refuse to put up with it any more and fight back.
And that’s denial on your part.
Moreover, no, it’s not. Annexation’s entire legality is very suspect. And your apologia for terrorism…
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=292890
I have a lot of those links, feel free to ask for more.
I have no idea what you think your link proves. Also, Israel annexed east Jerusalem and it’s legal (if problematic since it will probably be part of the quid for the pro of a final agreement). The civilian occupation of the West Bank is unarguably illegal, however. So, what’s your point?
His point is, China is doing bad things therefore Israel should get away with whatever.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4309791,00.html
Yes, Soapy, keep on supporting the Israeli right by slamming anything which isn’t based on good old exceptionalism.
Bus bombing last year? Still not getting it what it has to do with the West Bank.
Gaza and Hamas? Still don’t see what it has to do with the West Bank.
