What should have israel done instead?


If I was an American who drank beer, I’d get upset if it was warm. Can’t stand the stuff, though.


That’s the joke - there’s a myth that British beer is served warm.
And I can’t drink beer either, I find hops far too bitter.

(Although the one about beer glasses in Europe having a “CE” EU conformity marking on them to show they’re full-sized? True!)


Eh, not so much a myth. Certain British beer tends to be served at a higher temperature than Americans are used to… like room temperature.

Americans are used to drinking lagers, and especially pilsners. Lagers are fermented at low temperatures and are kept cold to prevent spoiling or turning rancid. Since Americans are weaned on pilsners, we tend to think that all beer should be refrigerated and served at near-freezing temperatures. So when we go to Europe and drink a porter or a stout, we’re shocked to find that it’s served at just a little cooler than the ambient temperature.

I reckon this was an artifact of Prohibition. While there was illicit beer-brewing during that time, it was a lot harder to hide and not nearly as profitable as hard liquor, so US beer brewing more-or-less disappeared. When it was lifted, refrigeration was commonplace, so brewing and transporting lagers was easier to do in places (like the South) where it had not been possible before. Hence the rise of Budweiser, Coors, Michelob, etc., that made light pilsners almost exclusively.

Personally, I love a good British or Irish porter, and I like them about ten degrees cooler than the room I’m in, which most Americans - even those that like dark beer - would consider too warm.


That’s kinda the myth ><
They’re served from the cellar, which is held at 10-15C.

I’m lowbrow and drink, when I drink, Cider. (The alcoholic one, what I believe is “hard cider” in America)


This is where our Constitution is broken and has been replaced by executive fiat, and it’s not going to get any better until we have real Constitutional reform.

The system of the founding fathers just doesn’t work anymore- and eventually we’re going to see cheers as we head towards autocracy.


I’d argue that we’re already wandering in that general direction. Getting rid of FPTP would help, but a Parliamentary system would be better still. Neither’s going to happen until things get much worse, though, and even then dictatorship is a more likely outcome. Don’t forget Presidential wannabe Lindsey Graham’s words a couple weeks back:

And here’s the first thing I would do if I were president of the United States. I wouldn’t let Congress leave town until we fix this. I would literally use the military to keep them in if I had to. We’re not leaving town until we restore these defense cuts. We are not leaving town until we restore the intel cuts.

Senator Graham’s spokesperson later told Bloomberg that when Graham said “I would literally use the military to keep them in if I had to,” that statement was “not to be taken literally.” You can’t make this stuff up. No one would believe it.


…Getting rid of FPTP pretty much always helps.

Unless you go with straight party list. Like, er, Israel.
But that’s widely recognised as a cluster**** of a voting system as well.


I dunno… for what it’s worth, I’d probably consider 15C to be “warm” as far as beer is concerned.


Maybe Senator Graham is just way more up on modern lexicography, as literal now also means figurative (at least according to the unwashed masses over at the OED). Of course, that would be much more likely if Graham were actually online, but apparently the man is incapable of making use of tools as complicated as email, so I suspect your interpretation is more likely correct.


Agreed - isn’t 15C the equivalent of a warm summer day in England? <only half joking>


It nearly is for here in Seattle…


The problem is that Palestinian civil society has been pulverized, to the extent that it existed at all. Peaceful protest is a function of those who have at least some opportunities in their lives, to work and pay taxes and expect basic services from their government in return. If you have none of those things, you’re probably going to have a rock or a gun in your hand instead. Fatah is really a faction, just like Hamas and the smaller ones (Islamic Jihad, etc). There is no real government, and no unified position on peace with Israel or anything else. As long as that’s true, peace is going to be next to impossible to achieve.


Good lord, Princess. Boo hoo, Seattle weather. Sheesh.


grumbles under his breath about those darn heathen Americans

lol. As I said, I don’t even drink beer.
But it’s an amusing cultural conflict.


Hey, I wasn’t complaining. Anything above 80F is just miserable.


You should try a Lambic, like Lindermann’s. I much prefer them to more bitter beers.

Ha, strength through diversity indeed. I prefer it much, much warmer; Texas heat doesn’t bother me at all. Where I grew up, we would regularly start football two-a-day practices in 95F degree heat and 95% humidity. One of my favorite jokes: “I thought about moving way up North once, but Dallas was just too cold.”

On topic, I am reading a lot of speculation that it was the Iranians, rather than the Americans the Israelis were spying on. Also, the French are reportedly terribly dismayed at the U.S. bargaining position about how much we are giving away to the Iranians, and may be leaking in an attempt to change the dynamics at the table.


Sure. It wasn’t so much the spying as the end-around the POTUS and trying to influence US Lawmakers. I’d be stunned if the Israelis weren’t spying on the negotiations… heck, I’d wager that their spies set up group rates with the Turks and Saudis at the nearby Best Western.

Eh, sounds like typical diplomatic posturing. “Sacre blu! Ze Americans, zey are giving so much away! Zee Iranians woudlld be FOOLS not to take zis deal! Do you think they heard me, Pierre? Should I say it again, a second time?”


I said the same thing in the very first post on this issue. What’s both bad and surprising is that the intel was leaked to members of Congress. The fact that Israel was spying on these talks? 100% expected.


I’d be more bothered if it was a public dump, rather than lawmakers.

And I don’t really see it as surprising - it’s been done in the UK several times with reports internal to political parties, for instance, slipped to the opposition. Parties in government, about their future policies.


This is the best thing that has happened in P&R in months.