What should have israel done instead?

[Dr_Gonzo]

The difference in your hypothetical is that the U.S. recognizes Mexico as a sovereign nation, and vice-versa. There are a hell of a lot of tools at your disposal, ranging from meaningful diplomacy to declaring a legitimate war in that scenario that don’t exist when you have two groups of people who mutually look at each other as large terrorist organizations.

BTW, going by your logic there’s no such thing as an “Israeli,” as it’s a name made up by some angel that Jacob wrestled.

No. Israel was recognized as a nation in 1948.

Who was the first King of Palestine?

[Tracy_Baker]

I’m afraid we would. Mexico would cease to be Mexico and probably wind up as the 51st State. America would not tolerate the killing of it’s children by a foreign country. We dropped atom bombs on Japan for attacking a harbor, what do you think we’d do to a country preying on our school kids?

Americans have always killed their enemies. Freedom ain’t free.

Of course with the present pusillanimous shitball in the WH, no telling what would happen.

I didn’t see this post earlier. Thanks for making everything I need to know about you crystal clear, and fuckity-bye.

WTF is with all the low-post-count trolls lately?

[Flowers]

The man is a Phillistine, and the irony completely lost upon him.

[espressojim]

So you won’t even answer the simple question I asked? Terrific.

Ok, I’d answer that I don’t know what Tufte would say, as I’m not Tufte.

Note: I don’t always agree with Tufte either. My wife is an instructional designer, and we go back and forth discussing visualizations and how to do them effectively. Sometimes we both think Tufte’s ideas are great for his one example, but don’t work in the real world very well.

[Tracy_Baker]

Ok, I’d answer that I don’t know what Tufte would say, as I’m not Tufte.

Note: I don’t always agree with Tufte either. My wife is an instructional designer, and we go back and forth discussing visualizations and how to do them effectively. Sometimes we both think Tufte’s ideas are great for his one example, but don’t work in the real world very well.

Dude, never mind. That’s two posts you’ve wasted not answering the question, which has nothing to do with you channeling Tufte and everything to do with your personal opinion regarding the best way to present the data in question using a bar chart.

[Jason_McCullough]

Which, when you see the graph stretching all the way down to zero, makes a lot of sense.

I think this whole problem with that graph is political correctness gone mad!!!

The graph format is terrible for showing the subject in question.

[Tim_Partlett]

I disagree. It expresses more clearly than any other graph presented, what it aims to show: that the Jewish population is declining relative to the Arab. Maybe that’s the problem.

[espressojim]

Dude, never mind. That’s two posts you’ve wasted not answering the question, which has nothing to do with you channeling Tufte and everything to do with your personal opinion regarding the best way to present the data in question using a bar chart.

You have me confused with someone who thinks that the best way to represent that data was with a bar chart. I clearly said “better” (as in, the bar chart is better than the zoomed in area chart), not that it’s the best way to represent that data.

If that resonse isn’t sufficient, I suggest you start asking someone who’s more emotionally or intelectually invested in this for an argument - I’m out.

[Jason_McCullough]

I disagree. It expresses more clearly than any other graph presented, what it aims to show: that the Jewish population is declining relative to the Arab. Maybe that’s the problem.

It’s better than the bar graph, but it still sucks. If you want to show a change between two components as relative proportion I know there’s better alternatives, but I can’t point to one because I don’t have the Tufte book anymore. :)

[Tracy_Baker]

If that resonse isn’t sufficient, I suggest you start asking someone who’s more emotionally or intelectually invested in this for an argument - I’m out.

You were never in, but thanks for not playing. Seriously. If you can’t answer one simple question you aren’t worth dealing with at all.

[John_Many_Jars]

You filthy graph bastards. I vow eternal war against your tribe!

[Kurdel]

You filthy graph bastards. I vow eternal war against your tribe!

Pretty much :

[espressojim]

You were never in, but thanks for not playing. Seriously. If you can’t answer one simple question you aren’t worth dealing with at all.

Seriously, you just wanted A or B? B, if your intent was to show Jew vs. non-Jew population growth. The graph is still overdone and sucks, but if I’m down to two choices, it would be that one. Do you get a gold star for taking a still relatively shitty graph and making it modestly better? As I indicated above, you could have made THAT graph much better than it was, since it only had one dependent variable.

I would have figured since I gave comments on the second graph, you could have grasped implicitly that I liked that one more (much like I should have no problem with a graph starting at 60%), but I guess I assumed too much.

Oh P&R - I love that a flamewar over isreael has gone all tufte-shaped.

[Jason_McCullough]

No results found for “tufte-shaped”.

I’m impressed!

[thrasymedes]

“Palestinians,” Arabs, Africans and more can all live and work in Israel if they don’t bomb school children. Israel is the most diverse country in the Middle East.

So you favour a one-state solution, with equal voting rights for all?

[Kurdel]

So you favour a one-state solution, with equal voting rights for all?

I wouldn’t hold my breath on getting more out of Dr.Gonzo…

South Carolina Democrats are Highly Intelligent

This forum sucks. No avatars, no sigs, full of pansey ass Reds. Are you people related to the DU? I didn’t last real long there either, and leaving this cesspool wont be that difficult either.

[Anaxagoras]

I wouldn’t hold my breath on getting more out of Dr.Gonzo…

Right… he was already banned when LessLucid posted.

[Kebooo]

The craziness was fairly entertaining, I must admit I was somewhat looking forward to where it was heading. The US dropped an atomic bomb on Japan…therefore that applies to the US in 2010, so it’s OK for Israel to start dropping nukes on whoever.

[Murbella]

Dr.Gonzo might have been a bit crazy, but you’d have to be just as crazy to think the USA wouldn’t retaliate militarily against Mexico (unrealistic example of course) if they were constantly launching rockets at civilian targets from across the border. We’ve also invaded and regime changed countries for significantly less than lobbing rockets at our civilians and giving the keys to their country to a terrorist party.

[Dejin]

Dr.Gonzo might have been a bit crazy, but you’d have to be just as crazy to think the USA wouldn’t retaliate militarily against Mexico (unrealistic example of course) if they were constantly launching rockets at civilian targets from across the border. We’ve also invaded and regime changed countries for significantly less than lobbing rockets at our civilians and giving the keys to their country to a terrorist party.

There’s a flipside to that.

If the US had lost a war, and the country which defeated us offered to make peace with us, under the condition that they would claimed in perpetuity all the best land, the water resources, the strategic positions, and the places most important to us culturally, we would probably go tell them to go fuck themselves.

What would happen if an outside force decided to take a chunk of the United States and turn it into a state which was set aside for people from a minority culture. People who had lived there before the change could continue to live there, but on the understanding that the state was specially set aside for people from a specific ethnic or religious group, with the understanding that laws would be made that were specifically designed to enhance that ethnic or religious groups values. That members of that religious or ethnic group would be able to immigrate in, whereas our relatives could not. How do you think people in the US would react?

The violent reaction of the Palestinians and their unwillingness to settle for what the Israeli’s have offered them is exactly the same as how a great deal of US citizens would act in the same circumstances.