Is there anything they can do to negate their reflectivity pointing at Earth?

These telescopes are really sensitive. I’m not sure they can create a black paint that is dark enough.

On the bright side, maybe they won’t need to build another telescope on Mauna Kea anymore.

Coat them with Vantablack. But they will still occult objects.

Anything that close is going to be too bright for sensitive optics/detectors no matter what you do, basically, short of (as Rich says) something extreme like vantablack.

Are those the ones just launched (~280 miles) or the older batch (~550)? Not that it makes much difference, given that the eventual plan is to orbit a bunch of them at low-ish altitude anyway.

Wall-E should really be about cleaning the orbital junk from the skies at some point.

What we need is Mega Maid to clean this mess.

Way overblown. The satellites are initially mostly grouped together so the effect it exaggerated, and they are in lower orbits at launch. They will go higher and also spread out so the effect is greatly diminished. SpaceX has said they will changed future sats to also reduce how reflective they are. This is astronomers having unfounded hissy fits.

fuck off

But spaceX are making it way cheaper to put shit in orbit, so how about we put a stonking great big telescope in a lagrange point so it has no atmospheric interference, no problems with space junk and a great big fielf of view?

I’d love to see a lot more telescopes in space. One on the moon would be pretty rad too.

That’s the James Webb, which is great and all but hardly sufficient unto itself. It’s impossible to replace all of ground based astronomy with space-based telescopes. For one thing, you’re functionally closing off astronomy to all but the very rich and the very elite.

Damn right. If astronomers in this thread, the entire American Astronomical Society, and actual goddamn pictures of disrupted observing won’t convince him, clearly there’s nothing else to say here.

…And rural. It’s not like pointing a scope at the sky does you any good if you are (anywhere near) a modern city. But I get your point. And it makes sense. But fast, uninterruptible global internet makes more sense.

Same to you asshole.

For those of you who have never spent 8-10 hours on an evening with a eye glued to a telescope lens, looking at some of the most intricate nebulas or galaxies, let me try to give you a perspective so that you will have a smidgen of understanding why so many amateur astronomers are up in arms about these satellites.

First off, you need to understand the importance of dark adaptation. It takes about 30 minutes for the eyes to get fully dark adapted so that the rods in your eyes fully engage and allow you to see details you would otherwise miss.

Secondly, we need to talk about brightness. The big mosaic picture here is a huge widefield that is not indicative of typical astronomy. But it serves a very important yard-stick in brightness. When you look up at the sky, most stars you see are a brightness, or magnitude, of 1 to 6, with 6 being at the limit of human eyesight and without dark adaptation, most people will be be limited to about 4-5. These stars are but a fraction of a percentage of the stars out there. When you put an eyepiece on a typical ground based telescope, you can start to get down to very dim objects in the 10-14 range, which are very dim. For example, spotting the central star in the ring nebula with my 20" telescope takes extreme high power, an impeccable night and averted vision.

When looking at dim objects such as faint galaxies or nebulas, it’s a bane for an astronomer if the object is anywhere close to a star with a magnitude 1-4 star and even magnitude 5 and 6 can be problematic. This is because of the brightness these emit and when trying to view with a telescope, they can actually start to activate the cones in your eyes, effectively restarting your 30 min dark adaptation.

When your eye is glued to the eyepiece and a satellite passes through, it’s super distracting and depending upon the orientation of the solar panels, can act as a Mag 1-4 star. There are certain satellites, called Iridium, which are absolutely horrible, with flares of magnitude -9. Yes, magnitudes of negative numbers are super bright. A full moon is -13. I’m not expecting these Starlink to ever get to that point, but I do expect that they will be in the 1-4 range, again depending upon the orientation of the solar panels.

So, astronomers have issue because of the number of satellites being proposed.

The Federal Communications Commission, a US regulator, has given SpaceX permission to launch a total of nearly 12,000 satellites to provide broadband internet worldwide. Other companies such as OneWeb and Amazon also have plans for similar fleets of satellites.

Last month, SpaceX filed documents that showed it plans to launch 30,000 additional small satellites – roughly triple the number of satellites sent into space by humans to date.

I’ve spent countless nights out with my telescopes and the thought of this many satellites boggles my mind. I have huge empathy for the professional observatories, because trying to find things like comets or asteroids is basically image comparison. Look for something that wasn’t there the last time you took this picture. with so many of these satellites orbiting earth, I would imagine that this is going to make things like asteroid detection far more difficult with so many false positives.

TL/DR - It really pisses me off when people are ignoring the pleas and the warnings of established institutions and carelessly and maliciously throw out platitudes to dismiss these warnings. These uneducated people are weighing in on topics they have zero experience with and are swaying public opinion with their drivel.

Don’t be uneducated. Try to understand why astronomers are concerned and maybe visit a star party some night to see why we find this hobby so enthralling.

Tman’s detailed breakdown here is spot on. I did my dissertation work on small “backyard” instruments and it would have been impossible with a sky cluttered by the kinds of satellite arrays being proposed here. We are, for all practical purposes, talking about the death of ground-based astronomy here. We’re walling ourselves off from the night sky. This thread isn’t going to have much to talk about if that future comes to pass.

You’d be surprised what you can do from light-polluted locations with narrow-band filtering. Or if all you’re trying for is relative photometry (like finding transiting exoplanets). It’s actually easier to work around light pollution than satellite constellations, suffice it to say.

I’m an amateur astronomer too, but I think some concerns are overblown. The Starlinks are spectacular when they are first launched at the right time of day from the right perspective, but when they are not at low altitude all in a row, they will be much less noticeable.

I don’t think it’s going to be a major problem for backyard visual astronomy. The full constellation is going to be a problem for astrophotography and especially for all-sky surveys, but the all-sky surveys already do a lot of software processing to get rid of transients. There are 40,000 tracked objects in orbit already, plus airplanes and the occasional meteor. If astrophotography were still done with chemical plates, it would be a disaster, but images now all start as digital data representing a collection of frames. Some frames are going to be spoiled, but it just means that the data collection will take longer rather than being impossible.

Fortunately, I think Starlink is going to be the only constellation. I think SpaceX’s cost-of-launch advantage is so profound OneWeb won’t get off the ground and Kuiper won’t seem like such a good idea with SpaceX’s headstart.

Well said and an interesting point of view I had not considered in such depth.

I’d be fucking pissed too when powers completely outside my reach would fuck up my hobby .

Cheers.