Why is inequality bad?

Interesting book review at the Daily Beast for Tyler Cowen’s Average Is Over: Powering America Beyond the Age of the Great Stagnation.

Cowen’s main background assumption is that in the not-too-distant future various kinds of “genius machines” will be everywhere.

Even a few years ago, this forecast would have sounded silly, but that was before many of us trusted Match.com algorithms to suggest potential spouses and smartphones came with fingerprint scanners. Cowen’s not talking about flying cars (that futurist mainstay that always seems both just out of reach and comically unnecessary), but rather slightly more sophisticated versions of the technologies that many of us already use.

The bad news, he tells us, is that the rise of the machines will only worsen the wage polarization we are seeing today. Cowen predicts a situation where 10 percent to 15 percent of Americans are “extremely wealthy” with “fantastically comfortable and stimulating lives.” Most of the rest will see stagnant or falling wages but will benefit from plenty of “cheap fun and also cheap education.”

Whether you agree with the premise or not, it certainly looks interesting enough to read. I’ll probably put in a library hold request for it.

In the workplace, business negotiations and client introductions “will be recorded, processed, and analyzed [and] … [e]ach party to the communications might receive a real-time report on when the other people are likely lying …”

Probably not. We’ve had voice stress analysis for a long time, and we’re not using that. It’s sort of like the Organ Banks Problem in Niven’s stories - it’s an interesting thought experiment, but it easy to see we’re not actually going down that path. Niven himself said as much, if it were a likely future, we’d already be doing involuntary blood donations from death row criminals.

At the supermarket, “[y]our shopping cart will use GPS to track your moves through the store, including which aisles you visit most often.”

This guy has never tried to use a GPS indoors. Never mind that, grocery stores are not going to spend the money on this, particularly since shopping carts are exposed to weather and get stolen. If we see anything remotely like this, it will be purchased by the consumer, for the consumer’s benefit.

Even there the acceptance rate is slow. I use an iPod to organize my grocery shopping, and the resulting list is sorted by aisle, giving me most of what he’s predicting, and yet I’ve never seen another shopper doing it. Most people are just more comfortable with paper lists.

As for our personal lives, “[a] woman might consult a pocket device in the ladies’ room during a date that tells her how much she really likes the guy. The machine could register her pulse, breathing, tone of voice … or whichever biological features prove to have predictive power.”

Apparently he doesn’t know any women. Ignoring the sort of awkward sensor hookup this would require, women do not like machinery telling them who or what they like. They might discuss a date with friends, but that’s a social thing.

Cowen’s not talking about flying cars

On the contrary, all of the examples in the book review are in the “flying car” category. Half of being a futurist isn’t determining what’s possible, it’s determining what’s likely to be accepted, and he’s failing miserably in that regard.

Accurately predicting dramatic future changes, even near-future ones, is damned hard. RIM’s business depended on predicting what consumers wanted in smartphones, and they laughed off the iPhone as a nonthreat. If you look at today vs. 1980, the one dramatic thing that most people did not predict was the Internet, and the accompanying proliferation of small computers. In broad terms, life is actually very much the same as it was then. Almost all of the dramatic things people imagined didn’t come to pass.

The future is almost always far more boring than people expect. Unless we finally get fusion (which has been “30 years away” my entire life), in which case all bets are off. Cheap energy would turn the world upside down.

I do this. I have my favorite recipes on one service or another and I use that to assemble my shopping list, which is - blessedly - organized by department.

Saves me oodles of time compared to when my wife draws up the list and the items are (apparently) organized by Brownian forces.

Gus, your posts correctly point out some of the difficulties in various predictions of changes related to technology. However, I think you’re missing a key point…things change, both in terms of technology and social interaction.

For example: 20 or so years ago, many people would have said meeting someone on the Internet would never be socially acceptable, much as you say:

In another 20 years, who’s to say that clothing doesn’t already contain the “awkward sensor hookup”? And the generation that’s grown up with their entire life online considers consulting a machine natural, much as the current one considers using online dating sites to be socially acceptable?

Similar things can be said about the other comments you’ve made. I do agree with your assertion that predicting dramatic future changes is hard, but I don’t agree with your dismissal of all the predictions being made. There will be changes…your dismissing potential predictions is no better than blindly agreeing with all of them.

Sure, of course they do. It’s just that “things change” isn’t a very interesting observation. If you don’t discuss the details, it’s banal.

That’s pretty much at a tangent to what I said. “How you meet people” is a very different thing from someone dictating what you like to you. I can expect all sorts of changes in how people meet, but not in something that’s fairly basic to human nature.

Yes, people use machines all the time. That doesn’t mean we’re letting them override our preferences. If anything, that’s one of the most common topics in reference to recommendation systems, that we don’t like the results and throw them out in favor of things we actually like. Amazon’s rec system, Netflix’s, and (since we’re talking dating) Match.com all get that kind of feedback from people all the time.

There’s a world of difference between systems which suggest possible choices for you, and systems which tell you what your choice should be. A theoretical dating system that let you, for example, pick someone out of a crowd in a bar who might be interesting to you is plausible given enough information, and something that people might want and use. He’s suggesting a system which tells you who you do or don’t like after you’ve spent time with them, which is something that no one wants. Well, except theoretically people who get a weird thrill out of being ordered around, I guess.

In his future, you don’t use matchmaking gadgets, matchmaking gadgets use you!

Ahem. Bullshit.

I’m not dismissing all potential predictions. I’m dismissing these specific predictions. I’m not “blindly” rejecting them, I’m rejecting for good reasons. What you’re doing here is dismissing my criticism by claiming it’s a knee-jerk reaction, when I gave specific reasoning for each case. You want to argue for them, make a convincing counterargument, don’t make this kind of statement. It’s cheap.

Discussing the future can be an interesting pastime. However, there are a variety of pitfalls:

  • Underestimating technological change. Infamous examples are “I forsee the world needing 5 computers” and “who needs more than 640kb of RAM?”
  • Overestimating technological change. Where are our jetpacks and hover conversions?
  • Projecting current social mores and customs on the future. I’ve read some very sexist SF written in the 40’s to 60’s where the setting was the far future.
  • Not thinking through the human angle - aspects of self-interest that are not culture dependent. That’s mostly what this author is doing, and he’s doing it so consistently that I’m not much interested in the book

You can always dismiss specific predictions, because it’s the future…it’s always possible to take differing starting assumptions and proceed to a different conclusion. What you say are “good reasons” are just different assumptions about the rate and quality of change than what the authors of the various predictions used. Maybe your assumptions are right, maybe the authors’ are. More likely, it’s somewhere in the middle, which is why I said dismissing the predictions and agreeing with them are equally bad.

In any event, there’s not much benefit in continuing to argue over what is clearly not going to result in a consensus, so I’ll stop.

Back to the thread topic of inequality…there are some very interesting animations showing the change in inequality across US states from 1977 to 2012 over at the Economist’s View. The color choice is a bit weird, with red being less inequality and green being more, but that’s a minor quibble. Interesting to see how the changes are almost exclusively toward higher inequality at every step.

Uh, no. That wasn’t the basis for my arguments against these particular predictions. I suspect at this point you’re just skimming over what I’m saying without really taking it in. It’s irritating that you dismiss my reasoning with hand-waving like this.

Now, if you’re going to reach back to the report that assumed human-level AI, superficially, that was about rate of change. However, the larger point in that debate is that they were issuing dire warnings on the assumption of technology that is far in advance of what’s reasonably predictable. It doesn’t even really matter how far in the future real AI is, it’s a such a gargantuan leap that it’s stupid to go into hysterics about it now. It’s akin to warning everyone to dump stocks in road-construction, because anyone can see we’re going to have flying cars soon.

On the NY Times blog, Robert Reich wrote a post titled American Bile that ties inequality to polarized party government.

Political scientists have noted a high correlation between inequality and polarization. But economic class isn’t the only dividing line in America. Many working-class voters are heartland Republicans, while many of America’s superrich are coastal Democrats. The real division is between those who believe the game is rigged against them and those who believe they have a decent shot.

Losers of rigged games can become very angry, as history has revealed repeatedly. In America, the populist wings of both parties have become more vocal in recent years — the difference being that the populist right blames government more than it does big corporations while the populist left blames big corporations more than government.

Widening inequality thereby ignites what the historian Richard Hofstadter called the “paranoid style in American politics.” It animated the Know-Nothing and Anti-Masonic movements before the Civil War, the populist agitators of the Progressive Era and the John Birch Society — whose founder accused President Dwight D. Eisenhower of being a “dedicated, conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy” — in the 1950s.

Inequality is far wider now than it was then, and threatens social cohesion and trust.

Makes a lot of sense. I’d like to see some detailed statistical studies done on it, mind you - could be a correlation issue of other factors. Does it also hold in other countries…

Losers of rigged games can become very angry, as history has revealed repeatedly. In America, the populist wings of both parties have become more vocal in recent years — the difference being that the populist right blames government more than it does big corporations while the populist left blames big corporations more than government.

The irony, of course, being that the two are practically one and the same anymore. So everyone hates the same beast, but they only hate the head they see, not the monster as a whole.

I think we can all agree that Notch has finally zeroed in on why exactly inequality is bad.

If you’re unhappy and unfulfilled, spending hundreds of thousands a night partying in clubs seems like it’s going to make that problem vastly worse. Not to mention the type of humans it’s going to attract.

And I understand former employees being angry, they had like a US $250k one time bonus after the sale. Sure, Notch wasn’t even obligated to give them that but that was because he ran a company where his employees had zero equity.

Which is true for the vast majority of workers in America.

And Denmark.

This is it for me… I think it’s dickless to think that you’re better because you are born into wealth and opportunity. I think everyone deserves equal opportunity, and then all bets are off.

My concern isn’t inequality, but a combination of poverty, and undue influence from wealth.

All wealth should provide is financial security, not influence and power. Unfortunately, man is greedy and wicked.

I’m not sure financial security can exist without resulting in influence and power. With the exception of some fantasy utopia, monetary inequality will always exist and those on the top of the monetary mountain can use that position to exert influence and power on those with less wealth.

…and I can see “greedy”, but “wicked”? That seems like an inappropriate use of that term, but then I believe that people are inherently good.

I care about equality of opportunity and equality before the law, but I don’t care about equality of outcome. In terms of outcome, I only really care about the absolute level of prosperity being as high as it can be, so that the poorest have a good quality of life.

The trouble is, the kinds of measures you need to put in place to pursue equality of outcome tend to contradict equality of opportunity and equality before the law, but these are the higher values, because they’re based on freedom, and freedom must be the highest value for a liberal society (because freedom is the necessary platform for anything good to happen, in the long run, i.e. with personal, economic and political freedom there’s the possibility of progress, without them, progress is less likely, and regress more likely).

To go a bit deeper: equal distribution is an abstraction imposed on a society, and in that regard, it’s not much different, in terms of what would have to be done to attain it, from any other abstract distribution one might propose to impose on society, such as “I should have all the wealth”, or “me and my mates should have all the wealth”, it’s just a distribution that happens to have equality as its measure. All such distributional propositions have to counteract whatever people are already tending to do (i.e. redistribute), and at some point you’re going to have to initiate force against people who are innocent of wrongdoing. The cost, in terms of potential for a slippery slope and the erosion of liberty (and for the process to be hijacked by not-nice people) is quite high.

It could be argued that the benefit of an equal distribution of wealth would be worth the cost (in terms of people starting off from a more equal footing), but I doubt it. People have different capacities, and they’re always going to produce varying values, so attaining equal distribution is going to be a constant effort, therefore the cost (slippery slope, erosion of liberty, hijacking by bad people) is going to be constantly present, therefore it’s too high in the long run.

Equality of opportunity and equality before the law (which is another type of abstraction, but this time a benign one - i.e. you treat people equally as abstract agents, all capable of self-steering and goal-direction) are all that’s needed. Any inequality of opportunity arising from varying distribution of wealth should be dealt with in ways that don’t require breaching the principle of freedom (e.g. self-help, charity, unions, etc.)

Of course influence arising from affluence has to be combated (even though it’s a constant battle), but that’s a different problem.

Actually, I’m not in favour of equality of opportunity. It’s nice in theory, but we are so very far from that, it’s basically a mirage. Trying to achieve complete equality in that regard would require such heavy-handed measures it would be an injustice and would most likely backfire. Stick to more attainable goals.

I’m not so sure, you can look at some Nordic countries, for example, and see a lot of equality of opportunity (defined in this case how little the social status of your parents affects your own) with not so heavy handed measures at all (well, taxation, good public education, good public health and good welfare, but that’s far from an injustice.