Why the sequel to Hotline Miami should include a rape scene

I'm not sure how it can be a misreading if they made dickwolves jerseys, as you yourself admit, but okay? I guess?

I don't recall them ever saying or suggesting that making fun of rape or rape victims was something that Penny Arcade was "supposed to do". (Though I wasn't following the issue closely so maybe they did?) I also don't feel that the original joke was a rape joke - it was a joke about MMOs that used rape in the context of it being a horrible thing that no one should have to suffer, rather than as the punchline. I do recall them saying things to the effect of "our style of humor sometimes offends people and we can't be censoring ourselves every time that happens", which I think is a perfectly reasonable position.

Unfortunately, like I say, rather than pointing these things out in a polite and respectful manner and leaving it at that, they escalated, and they did so in some pretty inappropriate ways.

No one is implying that assault is "good clean fun"- that is a bit of logical gymnastics.
but I'm curious, since you've drawn a "red line", how would you react to a game that depicts a soldier with PTSD murdering hundreds of civilians? Or a game in which players have to kill children? I would hope that by your standard you would also boycott the companies that created those as well. Though I am aware that we, as a society, are desensitized to violence, but not the act of rape, one has to be careful where one draws a line in the sand. There is a danger in saying that certain types of violence are worse than others, you can inadvertently fetishize the act of rape and, in doing so, reinforce its status as a cultural taboo.

Sure, you can portray rape in commercial/industrial art like movies, comics and games.

But if you put the rapist as the PROTAGONIST (AKA HERO), well then you better research really well the hundreds of backfiring narratives that tried to put a anti-hero as the focus of the narrative (damn, anti-hero does not even mean ANTI-hero anymore, lost all the bad connotations).

Hundreds of failures, one after another (all those vigilante movies in the 80s...).

From Wolverine to Clockwork Orange's Alex, passing through Travis Bickle, Hannibal Lector and Homer Simpson, every single one became "heroes" in pop culture memes.

Creators seem to think that just making the main protagonist look sad at his bloody hands for a second is "questioning violence". Another cliché: make the protagonist say at some point that he is "tired of all this death/war", lol, yeah right. Effing Rambo did those like 5 times each, it is not going to start magically working 30 years later.

And the first Hotline MIami has already failed and backfired in making people question that game's ultraviolence.
Its fanbase already loves, glorifies and cosplays as the animal masked murderers in the game, 100% backfire.

The devs know that from their fanmail, thats why they are thinking really hard about what to do, that's an GOOD sign.

You may want to find some better examples of 'strong videogames women'. Triss is literally turned into an object to be rescued, Chell is a blank slate, new-Lara spends half her time cowering in fear, and as for GlaDOS... Remember the audio-log Valve cut? Because it made everyone involved so terribly uncomfortable?

Simply put, sexism IS an issue in videogames, and if you can't see that, maybe you should ask yourself why your response artical was mostly an attack on one woman.

"we're all Caucasian pig-males who support rape culture"

WE? No, just you. Stop speaking in the name of all white men.

I do not support rape. Upon anyone, regardless of their gender.
It is exactly this absurdity exclusion/inclusion of a specific subject as if to say that rape applying to the other is fine which repulses my logic.

It was entirely sarcastic and made extreme to emphasize the ludicrous irrationality of it. Alas, given the contemporary populace of the Internet being full of truly deranged persons, it is hard to convey snark and cynicism across ASCII.

Likely a reference to their engagement in certain types of sexual fetishes that the majority of the western hemisphere finds abhorrent.

Since when caring about women being abused means you care less about children/men/animals being abused?
Since never, that's when.

Since specific websites/movements/persons which practice specific tone and pry upon specific topics with a singled out subject and target audience.
You may have not been aware of it, but it is happening.

If the game really was about a soldier with PTSD, that would be someone who wasn't fully in control of his mental faculties. Now would I want to play that game? No. You see, for all the "adult" that people keep screaming about, one part of being an adult is coming to the realization that just because you CAN say something doesn't mean you SHOULD say something. No, this isn't the "yelling fire in a crowded theater" argument, it's just having a higher maturity level. Rape and such may be really hilarious in Jr. High, but when you grow and hopefully mature, you move past those kinds of jokes. Sadly, some people do not. The same thing with rape in games. There is nothing entertaining about rape. Absolutely nothing.

I will say that I fully realize that this is just my opinion and I neither expect everyone to agree with it. But personally, I prefer my games to be more "game." Either something so far out of reality that you can't draw a parallel to our real world (like Diablo 3 or Oblivion) or something where it is real, but does not "glorify" the violence (like the Total War series.) It's not really my cup of tea, but I don't have a problem with most current FPS games as it is usually bad guys you are shooting. I forget which game it was, but there was one where you had to shoot an airport full of innocent people. Nope, not for me. I know the reason was to pass yourself off as a terrorist so you can get closer to the big bad boss and "save more lives", but when you cross the line into killing innocents, that is no longer a game for my library.

I will come off a bit softer on my approach from earlier though after thinking about it a bit more. As a veteran, I'm a pretty big believer in free speech. So if a game came out that had an actual rape portrayed, I doubt I would actually lead a boycott charge or anything. Quite frankly, I have more important things to do than take on a video game company. But there is no way I would buy it.

OK, so let's take another bash at this, since I'm not at work and have
more time to try and boil down my point clearly, and keep value
judgements about intent to a minimum.

I haven't seen Michael, but having looked the movie up, and from your description, I am going to take a mostly uninformed guess that it is a dispassionate examination of a pedophile and one of his victims. I think there's a certain value in considering that. I also think think there's no movie without a point of view, and I think the filmmakers were entirely aware how most people would react to it, just like Wes Craven can laugh about people storming the projector's booth during screenings of Last House on the Left. They know what they made.

For me, it comes down to intent and awareness. What are they trying to communicate, and are they aware of how their audience will react to their intent and all the semiotic baggage in how they are communicating it?

There is two ways of looking at this situation: a) Dennaton got the reaction they wanted, but have been intimidated by Cara Ellison and the ensuing controversy, and caved to the pressure, or b) they have been made aware of Cara Ellison's reaction, and decided that it is not one they wanted. And when that happens you have a couple of options: you can flail and whinge about how it it's not what you meant and how dare you interpret it that way and make me a bad guy(let's call it the Gabe option), you can consider the reaction, decide it's unreasonable and stick you your guns, or you can consider it and change the way you're communicating.

I choose to belive the last one is what's happening here, because I like to think Dennaton are good dudes with good intent. And I don't think it is weak, or compromising their values. I think it is a grown up thing to do. Art is about communication, and Hotline Miami in particular is, as you note, very manipulative. So why the hell shouldn't they consider how she reacts? To do otherwise would either be succumbing to childish solipsism, not being thorough in their jobs, or dismissing her because she's a woman.

All of those are bad things.

For the rape scene, A man should be raped. That would really be breaking into new territory.

oh god. another liberal whackjob. go complain about all the guys objectified in videogames as well-toned muscular action heroes, why don't you? (see max payne, call of duty etc etc) oh that's right, it wouldn't fit your stupid victimhood/sexism narrative. stop whining and do something productive

oh and PS - women can do stupid things. this PC gamer person happened to start this controversy, and she happens to be both dumb and a woman. maybe when you grow up, you will realize you too can criticize women without being sexist

Instead of writing something profound, I'll, uh, just make a correction:
"Because part of videogames growing up is also videogames growing out, expanding into place[s] that Cara Ellison or I might not want to go."

how about this...
case A.
a videogame developer includes a depiction of rape in their game with the intention of presenting rape in a positive light, that rape is good.

when confronted with this moment in the game the mature player is immediately engaged in an inner dialogue something like - hey, this rape part really makes me uncomfortable, but this game is saying its good, i disagree with the game, so why does the game say its good? why do i disagree? and why we're at it, now that i come to think of rape (and not just keep it in that safe quiet place where i dont have to feel uncomfortable) why aren't we putting this horrible part of society under more scrutiny?

case B.
a videogame developer includes a depiction of rape in their game with the intention of presenting it as dispassionately, and from a position of as much neutrality as they possibly can. i.e. this is rape, we neither condemn nor condone it. it simply is.

when confronted with this moment, the mature gamer reacts with 'hey you can't be so ambivalent about this topic' and he/she is forced to examine their own views on the subject and think about why it touchd a nerve when its presented so dispassionately. hopefully this leads to broader reflections on rape in society.

case C.
developer codemns rape in their game. they're out to present rape as the horror it is. they might do so artfully and deftly, or they might do so hamfistedly and ineptly - either way we think about it.

my point is, and i'll be so bold as to suggest that this may have been part of Mr Chick's original idea, is that in case A,B, or C a topic that should be addressed more openly and honestly than it is, finally gets the attention and thought it deserves. if we as members of society, or makers of art in any form, are too delicate or hamstrung by fear of mishandling the topic then the issue remains in the dark, and its safe there, gathering more power.

finally, the developers are under no obligation to be good at what they do, or deft in their treatment of this subject. if they suck, we'll let them know. the game will fail (or not, and then we really have to take a good long look at ourselves), but one of the main promises of art will have been fulfilled - that is that at least its getting us thinking, judging, weighing, reflecting. it's a cliched metaphor, but a book, a film, a videogame, is a mirror held up in front of us all, if we're afraid to look at that mirror we need to start asking why.
thanks for your time, and the space on this site.

You should watch this obscure indie film from the 90s. It's called Pulp Fiction, and it will blow your mind.

I've seen it. Pretty sure it's not a video game.

I've read and liked Cara Ellison's article and I think, as the topics touched upon are increasingly the focal point in this industry recently, that it is a perspective not often heard and is valuable.
My 2cents on the depicted scene is, well, after reading how at least one of the devs behaved at E3 (there were a few 'creepy moments of E3' articles on multiple sites), I am inclined to think that they put that scene in there for shock value only, not necessarily for the intent of making the player uncomfortable doing what he/she does, and that's why I decided for myself not to play that game.
Them changing it, is, hmmm...I think the way they handle the scene does not justify the 'dulling the creative vision' argument against removing it