Why was the US military teaching 'total war' on Islam?

Amazing and worrying, but not completely surprising in a post 911 radicalised usa. But wow all the same.

Because it works. Great minds think alike.

You have to be insane to talk about these things in these terms. We have seen the terrorist talk about these things, and even perform these things. So if this thing trully existed, perhaps was made by some perturbed official. Plus that not how you fight a religion, … you fight a religion with culture, education and freedom. Doing stuff like bombing, all you do is give a “external enemy” that will be used. A “Goldstein”, to use the 1984 novel terms.

And this is where the Big Money can be made. I just find all forms of fascism really repugnant. It might be hardcoded into my british dna maybe?

I’m having trouble believing you just said that.

Yes - elements of the American right and the hardcore Islamists are essentially indistinguishable other than the faith they claim to follow and their targets, right.

Limited war yields limited results. Until you are killing 80,000 civilians a day you just aren’t trying.

This is somewhat ridiculous, like comic book evil.

…but at the same time worth little comment or concern. I guess it shows just how far brainwashing can take you?

Or to put it another way, if this story had been about British Officer training, it would be right at the top of the bill in the House of Commons, TV News reports etc and heads would roll.

And it’s not like the british army is all peace and light to racially different people, even within it’s own ranks. I know the banter.

Maybe it’s just a misinformation programme. Hey Al Saud! Look! We have people crazy enough to want to nuke you all. I’d think closely about where next years zakat is going.

Ignore Yamo Yamo - he’s just randomly picking out lines from the Lex Luthor Book of Quotes.

Anyone want to make the discussion a bit more specific?

On the general level, this is a rehash of a story that broke a few months back. And the original story lumped together a bunch of training materials. I don’t think I remember any of them suggesting that all muslims needed to die.

That doesn’t sound like the same story at all. Here we have a specific course that’s been running for some time with many military personnel passing through and nobody bothering to report it as offensive until it was leaked to the press.

The voluntary course aimed at senior officers was taught at the Joint Forces Staff College in Norfolk, Virginia, for a year.

Ya, I think this is the same story that came out a while back. I followed the links and they ultimately ended up linking to the same training materials.

Ultimately though, i’m just wondering if anyone wants to discuss any specific training materials, since that may be the only opportunity for a difference of opinion and interpretation. If the discussion stays at the vague level of “is killing all muslims bad?” I don’t think there is room for much discussion.

Oh I see. It’s not a different story - you’re just interpreting the story about a specific course being taught to senior officers as just “a bunch of training materials”. A kind of “nothing to see here” whitewash.

It’s not a case of "nothing to see here"at all. On the contrary, i’m just asking for specific parts of the training materials that folks find offensive in order to discuss them.

I can see what Timex is talking about, and part of what playingwithknives mentioned could be what is actualy behind this whole thing?

But i’ll go with seeing what we can find to discuss it with Timex.

'The course taught officers there was no such thing as moderate Islam and that they should consider the religion their enemy.

It advocated ‘total war’ against all the world’s Muslims, including possible nuclear attacks on the holy cities of Mecca and Medina and the wiping out civilian populations.

The Pentagon has confirmed the course material found on their website is authentic.’

That’s just from the bbc article i linked. I did download the pdf file i found on the wired article:

But without the actual lesson material the pdf is pretty hard to read, other than it does contain what could be called slightly offensive pictures, but on the otherhand this is the military - you should see the images they use for training on sexual diseases!

So yeah if all we take is that paragraph from the BBC website, that is drawing from the more information full wired article, and put in the context of what i said about if this had been leaked from Sandhurst (the british army officer training college), then there should be more conern than ‘what? oh that. It’s nothing’. Imho.

And i’m not looking for liberal net rage. I mean come on, we are talking Officer Training in the us military that went on for a year before it was leaked!! That is kind of mind blowing even in just the context of the conventions of warfare and rules of engagement set out after the second world war for a reason, i would suggest. Not to mention the damage to ones eternal soul when at the pearly gates and you are asked ‘well about that war, what did you do exactly?’

Or has the extremist brainwashing sunk in too deep maybe? And if so should we do something about that? Has there been any indepth reporting on this in the mainstrean us media for example? If not why not? etc

There seems to exist a few ideas here:

1 - Idea: You can sell more ads with a inflamatory title
2 - Idea: Theres no “moderate” islam
3 - Idea: Every islam follower is free to start violence/indoctrination to help promote his religion
4 - Idea: Theres a risk in islam followers.

my opinion:

1- Fuck these people, just add confusion and kill the signal/noise ratio
2- Probably millions (billions?) islamic followers disagree. I doubt is that virulent
3- I accept this, but even accepting this, this is the extreme interpretation of the extremist of his religion. See 2. Probably moderate islamic people disagree with 3.
4- Theres a risk in everything, genius. How big is the risk is the thing that matter. See 2 and 3.

So the whole points seems, do moderate islamic followers exist? are a minorite so small that we can say “don’t exist”?.

I just came to say I fucking love fascism. Must be the American DNA in me.

But without the actual lesson material the pdf is pretty hard to read, other than it does contain what could be called slightly offensive pictures, but on the otherhand this is the military - you should see the images they use for training on sexual diseases!

So yeah if all we take is that paragraph from the BBC website, that is drawing from the more information full wired article, and put in the context of what i said about if this had been leaked from Sandhurst (the british army officer training college), then there should be more conern than ‘what? oh that. It’s nothing’. Imho.

Well, that particular slide deck didn’t seem to have anything extremely offensive in it, did it? It certainly does not suggest anything approaching to what the BBC article would have you believe. There is no suggestion that there is no moderate Islam (it specifically mentions moderate aspects of Islam). It doesn’t suggest killing all muslims.

I only briefly skimmed it though, so maybe I missed something. Is there something about it which is specifically offensive?

Perhaps a better source would be this one:

And as I said, this isn’t an attempt to squash discussion, but rather an attempt to foster it by finding specific points to say, “This isn’t right.”