Or maybe it’s been looked at before, and not just something I made up.
With respect to dance, it is true that category number four explicitly includes “choreographic works.” However, Congress has decided that such category does not include “social dance steps or simple routines.”
Bolded by me.
I am more interested in “why”. Dance routines are creative works IMO. But at what point does copyrighting them become a hindrance versus something beneficial? The article you linked to just says they don’t fit in any of the existing categories.
That’s not just what it says. It says a whole lot more than that actually.
And you keep saying dance routine, but what’s the difference between a dance routine and a dance move, to you?
Okay, it says Congress decided they don’t fit in any of the existing categories.
Sorry, I will refrain from referring to dance routines another time, which would be my second time referring to them in that way.
Welll who else would makes laws? Are you expecting some other group to make this decision?
I’m not asking you to change your lingo, and of course you said it more than once. that why I said keep. I am pointing out how important it is. Dance moves are not copyright materials, compilations maybe. I can’t claim ownership of a note but put enough of them together and suddenly I have a song that isn’t free for everyone. Dance moves seem to be in that same area. These dance moves don’t seem sufficient enough to copyright based on previous attempts and considerations of the law. If that is to change, well it’s probably Congress that would do that.
I am aware of Congress’ job. And I am capable of using my browser’s search feature.
I’ll quote myself and ask “Why?” does Congress not think a dance move is copyrightable.
Why would they? As I just said, dance moves are lot like notes. They’re a part of a whole. You shouldn’t be able to copyright everything. The Moon Walk is not copyrighted, and why should it be? if there was a larger routine, then sure, but as just a move… no. Hell that’s not even accredited to the right person because the one who made it famous dwarfed the others so completely. In ice-skating, the Triple Axel isn’t copyrighted either, but you don’t really see the skaters copying entire routines, entire dances. They’re creative work is the entire piece not the separate jumps and moves.
Should Carlton’s dance from the Fresh Prince be copyrighted? Do you think it should be illegal to mimic this dance at a club? Why do you hate fun?
https://media1.tenor.com/images/671a1fe19cb34a2d2162e31e68a771d4/tenor.gif?itemid=7267453
I am not strictly pro or con. I am more interested in the discussion of where (and how!) do you draw the line. How many moves (or ‘notes’ as Nesrie puts it) is a routine? In the recording industry this threshold is very small. Why not in the world of dance? If you can point to something and say, that’s Carlton’s dance! Or that’s Michael Jackson’s Moonwalk! (Ignoring James Brown did it first.) That meets an important threshold, IMO. Simply saying “Because Congress said so!” does not advance this discussion, especially since Washington is crawling with special interests and lobbyists.
Ostensibly, the Copyright Office’s purpose is to further creativity. Maybe the answer lies therein?
Just seems like common sense to me. But I am curious which lobbyists you think were trying to prevent Congress from including dance moves in copyright law.
I do envision a future distopia where every person’s movements are monitored and their accounts charged appropriately when they happen to mimic a copyrighted set of muscle movements.
Lobbyists are constantly trying to influence the Copyright Office.
Of course they are. Just follow the money. But where’s the money trail on this one? It seems like lobbyists would try to get Congress to include dance moves, not vice versa, no?
But this is a super weird convo to have. As far as I can tell, none of us have any insight as to why Congress decided what they did. And other than suggesting that lobbyists may have swayed them, you’re not offering any opinions.
Hey, Nesrie brought up Congress, not me.
The origins of that move are actually quiet older than that. I don’t think you should ignore it though because that’s kind of the point. A fair amount of artists today stand on the backs of artists before them but work so hard to prevent anyone in the future from doing the same thing. We need copyright laws to be available to encourage monetization but at the same time not stifle the industry. We don’t want the first person to perform a triple axel to be the last. We don’t want the person person to sway their from to back to be the only one able to do it.
Weill Forbes actually. It’s in their article after all. Congress might need to either pass new law or the existing laws would be interpreted by the courts in a different way due to an actual case going on up.
Hence the notion of friction versus justice. When an injustice is too small (and you have to admit the “stolen” dances have garnered a lot of attention!), rectifying it causes everyone else a lot of headache.
Also, the Copyright Office’s mandate is to encourage creativity and innovation for the most people at most of the time.
It’s not an injustice to be able to use the notes on a scale, the instrument or the moves of people who came before you. That’s kind of a nature of art. You copy and then you do your own thing. Today’s artists would try and make that illegal while not at all acknowledging they did it themselves in the first place.
Well, nobody hears just one note or even a single chord and instantly recognizes the source of the piece of music. The one possible exception is the James Bond chord.
Also, while copyrights eventually expire, they are continually being extended. (In the US at least.) So Epic may have an out if it waits long enough.
[edit]
Never mind. Nonsense.
Yes, anyone who looks at copyright stuff at all is typically aware of the Mouse problem. Obviously dances can’t be exact equivalents of music but if the act of getting on your toes and turning around was enough to be copyrighted, ballet would be pretty different today. I am sure there is a line but I don’t think Floss or leg shake is it.
What exactly is “friction”?
